Ever wondered what Beyoncé's take on Dolly Parton's "Jolene" might reveal about the changing tides of country music? We're pulling back the curtain to expose how music can be a conduit for cultural exchange and understanding. We navigate through a heady mix of reactions from music icons, the significance of recognizing Black artists in country's narrative, and what happens when an artist like Beyoncé brings her unique flair to a genre steeped in tradition. It's not just about the music—it's about the stories they tell and the history they uncover.
Wrapping up, we don't shy away from the complex conversations. From dissecting cultural appropriation in the music industry to the enduring impact of the O.J. Simpson trial, we're unpacking the heavy hitters. How does historical awareness shape our present? We're sharing personal anecdotes and emotional reflections that connect deeply with broader societal issues. It's about understanding our past, confronting uncomfortable truths, and finding a way to move forward together.
Links of interest:
https://bit.ly/3w1g4KO
https://www.tiktok.com/@lansa.jpg/video/7354564572159675691?q=jolene%20beyonce&t=1712811617995
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
Ever wondered what Beyoncé's take on Dolly Parton's "Jolene" might reveal about the changing tides of country music? We're pulling back the curtain to expose how music can be a conduit for cultural exchange and understanding. We navigate through a heady mix of reactions from music icons, the significance of recognizing Black artists in country's narrative, and what happens when an artist like Beyoncé brings her unique flair to a genre steeped in tradition. It's not just about the music—it's about the stories they tell and the history they uncover.
Wrapping up, we don't shy away from the complex conversations. From dissecting cultural appropriation in the music industry to the enduring impact of the O.J. Simpson trial, we're unpacking the heavy hitters. How does historical awareness shape our present? We're sharing personal anecdotes and emotional reflections that connect deeply with broader societal issues. It's about understanding our past, confronting uncomfortable truths, and finding a way to move forward together.
Links of interest:
https://bit.ly/3w1g4KO
https://www.tiktok.com/@lansa.jpg/video/7354564572159675691?q=jolene%20beyonce&t=1712811617995
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy. We're a little bit early. We're live. Cynthia and I went on live quick. Who said hi? Is that?
Maurio Dawson :That was Alma.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, hi Alma, Hi Alma.
Maurio Dawson :She said hey.
Carmen Lezeth:Hey. So we were getting in the depths of a conversation and I was like let's just go on, because, see, this is the juicy stuff. So, Cynthia was just giving me an update on what happened last week with her patient. Cynthia was just giving me an update on what happened last week with her patient. The doctor came and apologized to her for a patient's behavior and I was asking but why did the doctor? It's not the doctor's fault. So, Cynthia was going on to tell the rest of the story. Go ahead, Cynthia.
Cynthia Ruiz:So the doctor sent me an email apologizing, you know, just asking if there was anything that she could have done or said to make the situation better, Because she felt bad for me. She, you know, she saw how upset I was and how the patient was treating me and I just told her you know, people are having an off day. It's no one's fault, you know. It is what it is. We deal with it and move on.
Maurio Dawson :So that's empathy, that's just empathy, that that's nothing else. You know when, when you have, when you have concern for someone, if you're a good person or a kind person, it's nothing. It's not that they did anything wrong, but they felt bad that you had to enjoy that situation and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's great yeah hey, rick, we're live.
Carmen Lezeth:We're live already. You know what let me give a shout out to uh tony, because it's totally the reason why we've come up with this. All about the joy thing and it's so funny on that clip. Did you guys check out the clip?
TikTok:Yes.
Carmen Lezeth:So funny I was cracking up. We didn't even rehearse, it was so good Speaking of Tony and. Tony Speaking of.
Cynthia Ruiz:Tony, how are you?
Carmen Lezeth:doing, but that's kind of part of our whole logo and our thing now. So so Cynthia was just giving an update on what happened last week with one of her patients and her doctor turned around and apologized. We were just going through that kind of thing where I was kind of asking why would the doctor apologize for the patient's behavior? And Mario, of course, is like empathy bitch. I didn't say that, but yeah empathy, yeah, but Rick, how are you doing Good good?
Rick Costa:good, just as always, busy, busy, busy.
Carmen Lezeth:Busy, busy, busy Mario. How?
Maurio Dawson :are you?
Carmen Lezeth:I didn't check in with you when you came on.
Maurio Dawson :I'm doing really well. Can't just counting down the days getting stressed out for this kid?
Carmen Lezeth:Wait, what do you mean getting stressed out for this kid?
Maurio Dawson :Because my kid's graduation, graduationations, everything's like. All the phone calls are coming in my, my dad's getting ready to fly in. You know, it's just logistics. Now everybody's just calling me back to back. People are saying you know, they got, you know stuff in the mail. I'm like okay, yeah. They're like what are you doing? What's next?
Carmen Lezeth:I'm like you know let's just, let's just tell everyone, especially people who are listening to the podcast um in the future, that your daughter Marissa. I say Mauricia. Can we say it in Spanish like that?
Maurio Dawson :No, Even if it's in Spanish, it's Marissa All right whatever. It's Marissa Luz.
Carmen Lezeth:Marissa no, I'm just kidding, I'm just saying I knew her when she was in the belly and everything you did, you knew her before she knew herself.
Maurio Dawson :That's right, I knew her before she knew me.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, my God, I did not say that, I'm just kidding, I just. But she's graduating from Pepperdine.
Maurio Dawson :Yes, at 20 years old. Come on now.
Carmen Lezeth:That is just a blessing. Yes, are we snapping? Is that what we're doing?
Maurio Dawson :That's for the kids, that's what the kids do.
Carmen Lezeth:Yay, yay, that's so cool, so well. Congratulations. That's a good thing to be busy and crazed about.
Maurio Dawson :I'm just saying Today she had her sunset ceremony. So when the freshmen come in, they have a sunrise ceremony as freshmen at Pepperdine, where they go and watch the sunset as a class and it represents the beginning of their journey at Pepperdine. And now that they're seniors, they're having their sunset ceremony where the sun is setting on their time there and it's a beautiful thing and they sit and watch the sunset and they have this beautiful ceremony at sunset. It's great.
Carmen Lezeth:So that is beautiful.
Maurio Dawson :Wow.
Carmen Lezeth:Congratulations. I'm so happy for us. I feel like I had a part to do with it.
Cynthia Ruiz:Absolutely.
Carmen Lezeth:Nothing at all, but and I can't believe I still haven't met her. I'm gonna have to meet her.
Cynthia Ruiz:Yeah, we'll talk about that later. Well, I do have you know.
Carmen Lezeth:I feel like I know her, know her and I don't you know that's okay, but you do, but you don't I know I do, but I don't, okay, but here's the thing, here's what I want to talk about.
Carmen Lezeth:So, mario, it's so funny because we, we, we're thinking the same. You know what I mean? We were thinking the same thing. All right, mario texts me and he's like I really want to talk about Beyonce, I really want to talk about this song, jolene, and I was like baby, of course, whatever you want, and if you can come on, that'd be great. And you said you would come on, which I think makes it all flavorful.
Carmen Lezeth:But before we start talking about it, I think we should show a little new video. Rick, you have it all queued up, right, let me just set this up. We're going gonna have a little conversation about it and we'll get to the whole age oj thing later, because I think it's all kind of the same thing in a lot of different ways. So, uh, trust me on that, all right. So let me just do this and we're gonna watch this video, and I don't think mario or cynthia have seen this, not from me. I just had rick do this, uh, late today, because I thought it was interesting okay so beyonce is in her country phase right now.
Paul Murray:Um, okay, um, I get it. You know this ain't texas, it ain't hold them. My kids just say that over and over and over and over and over again. It's a nice start to a song, but the next version has a bit of Dolly Parton's Jolene in it. But apparently this is empowering. Has she actually read the words that she was singing?
Megyn Kelly:Can I tell you something Like why do we have to? It's fine that they make a queen out of Beyonce. I don't totally understand why. I mean she's she's a good singer, she's talented, I don't deny that. Why does it have to be yes, not a queen? People like her music. She sings some good music, that's it Okay. She didn't cure cancer. She's not Marie Curie Calm down.
Megyn Kelly:So now she decides to take a step into the country lane and it's like country music has been remade. It's remade, is it Okay? A new player in country music has been around for a long, long time. It goes right to the heart of America and most Americans in red states have been loving and enjoying it long before Queen Bey decided to stick her big toe into the lane. But fine, okay, she comes over.
Megyn Kelly:She makes an album which, of course, because she's queen has gotten the thumbs up and the promotion from Michelle Obama, from vice president Kamala Harris, from Paul McCartney, from Dolly Parton herself she's no dummy. She called everybody and said I need you to do me this favor and say you love my album, which they did. But she takes Jolene, which is such a catchy song by Dolly Parton and Jolene the most interesting thing about that song, in addition to its catchy tune, is the story it tells. It tells a story of a very insecure woman who sees another woman who she thinks and strongly believes is much more attractive than she is, with her auburn hair and her green eyes. I love the auburn hair line.
Megyn Kelly:And she knows yeah, well, she knows Jolene can steal her man away. Now, this doesn't say good things about her man, but she knows that it could happen and instead of like going over and threatening Jolene, what she does is begs Jolene not to take her man away. She begs her saying I know you could do it, but I'm begging you please don't, because for me he's the only guy there is. And that's an interesting window into an insecure woman's heart, and it's also kind of clever because she flatters Jolene like it's a smart but insecure woman. Anyway, that's the story of the song, or at least it used to be. Queen Bey got her hands on the song and God forbid, she sing anything that make her look less than you know, all empowered with the muscle, and so now she's got to change it to. If you come by, my man, I'm basically going to beat the hell out of you.
Paul Murray:I'm going to beat you up Is that right Like take that biatch.
Megyn Kelly:And she uses the B word in the song and she turned.
Megyn Kelly:Jolene into her version of a badass, because that's what modern day feminism looks like. By the way, completely missing that, the true power move is to write a song about Jolene, not even worrying about this. Jolene has no worries because her man loves her and is committed to her and would never cheat on Jolene. So the most beautiful woman in the world could come walking by. She's good, but Queen Bey doesn't understand that. She's got to pretend she's tough, which only telegraphs to those of us who are paying attention that she isn't. The whole thing is bass-ackwards and I object.
Paul Murray:Yeah, also. Look, you know, if this current version, the redoing, ain't doing it for you and the Dolly Parton one is a little bit too old for you, can I play Dolly Locks here for a second? There's a magnificent version that Miley Cyrus did. It's very sort of low-key and she's kept on all of her clothes for most of it. It's a good version of it if you get the chance.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, so I'm not going to say a word, I'm just going to let Mario start. Where's Rick, where's Rick, rick, rick. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I accidentally clicked you off with the thing. I only clicked.
Maurio Dawson :I'm going to say something real quick.
Carmen Lezeth:No, no, not real quick, go ahead. You got the flow, baby. No, we can't see it or hear it.
Maurio Dawson :Oh, you can't hear it.
Carmen Lezeth:No, what are you listening to? It's Dolly P. You know that hussy with the good hair you sing about, reminded me of someone I knew back then, except she has flaming locks of a open hair. Bless her heart. Just a hair of a different color. It hurts, just to say it. It's the album. Go ahead.
Maurio Dawson :That was Dolly Parton herself on the album Speaking to her. She said hey, honey bee, this is Dolly P. She said yes. She said, basically, this is her giving her kiss, her seal of approval to the remake. And then Beyonce never called that woman a bitch. She said I'm a bitch. She said so, there's a difference. And then, on top of it, when you have somebody like Willie Nelson, who she didn't have to call, he could have said no, dolly Parton has been all over social media giving everything she wanted to Beyoncé. Then, on top of that, dolly Parton said back in 2022 that she wanted Beyoncé to remake her song, so she asked for this on top of so miss me with that, all that foolishness. And then miss me with that idea that country music came from red States.
Carmen Lezeth:Let's, let's stop from there, for let's just stop for just for a second. Okay, let me just say what hi Sheila, hi Alma, alma just said she's empowered and is in step with the time. The whole point is to engage the younger generation, and Dolly P gave her the go at it. I actually think this is a much bigger conversation. I actually don't think it's about approval from Dolly Parton or changing the lyrics a bit or whatever. First of all, I want to say to Megan what's her name, megan?
Maurio Dawson :Kelly, Megan Kelly, who got canceled on NBC. But let's keep it moving.
Carmen Lezeth:It's okay. She has a right to her opinion. I'm going to say this and then I want Cynthia and Rick to chime in before I go off. Okay, here's my thing about Megyn Kelly and anyone else who is in this kind of nasty place where they're trying to dismiss someone who created a piece of art. It says more about who you are than it does anything at all about Beyonce. Beyonce don't need no approval from anybody. She don't need approval from Dolly Parton, from Willie Nelson, from anybody.
Maurio Dawson :Paul McCartney.
Carmen Lezeth:Paul McCartney from anybody. And let me just say this the idea that Beyonce had to call them and ask them to help her bullshit. She called them probably to be like hey, I'd love to do this, I'd love to collaborate, blah, blah, blah. But this idea that Beyonce would be begging for some approval is a weird idea of what art is Megyn Kelly? What's her name? Megyn Kelly? Megyn Kelly, I mean, I saw that clip and I was going to send it to you all and I thought nope, let's just play it on the show. It's. I want people to learn from this situation. You can be a better person when you understand nuance.
TikTok:Yes.
Carmen Lezeth:These are not black and white. Things are intricate. There is a much bigger issue going on than what Megan Kelly is throwing out there to the public, which is bullshit to get us all riled up. She is so full of shit with what she's talking about it's heart wrenching to me to listen to and that's why I played it. Hi Ash, how are you? And Ash, I want to say something to Ash. Ash wrote on YouTube, on one of our videos, that she's so glad that we don't talk about race, and I told her today do not come on here.
Maurio Dawson :It's a race kind of day.
Carmen Lezeth:So, cynthia and Rick, before I keep going on, I'd love to get you guys to chime in. Cynthia, I wonder what your thoughts are.
Cynthia Ruiz:Oh yeah, she's definitely hating. First of all, like from the back. She's hating on Beyonce, whether she calls herself a queen or not. Who is she to say that she can't call herself a queen or that anybody else calls her a queen? She is a queen in her own right. She has worked her ass off and dolly parton gave her. Okay, I'm not a fan of this of the song jolene, but you know that that's my choice, that's. You know, my opinion. Everyone has the difference. That's not my favorite song on the album either, by the way. Yeah, you know um and she didn't even.
Cynthia Ruiz:this megan person didn't even get it right, because jolene is actually the person who's trying to take the man, trying to take Dolly Parton's man, and she was referring to her as if she was the person who had the man. So she couldn't even get her facts straight.
Carmen Lezeth:This is all about hate, right? It's all about yeah, yeah, rick thoughts.
Rick Costa:Well, my first impression was we are taking up television time to talk about what you feel about a song. Ok, that's what we're doing, all right, like you can't talk like that with your friends. You got to go on national international TV to talk about a song that you personally don't care about. Like, if I came on and talked about everything I don't care about, we'd be here forever. Like that's what we're doing with our valuable time. I don't know. I listened to the song, listen to the whole thing, actually the whole album, um, and I was like, all right now jolene's, the only one I know.
Carmen Lezeth:I know rick is really low rick, why are you so low today? And your mic I don't see if I could I just, I tried to raise you over here, but I think you're talking awfully go ahead.
Rick Costa:Is this better? I just jacked it up yeah, go ahead. I think it's better go ahead, let's so um jolene's, the only one I was familiar with at all. So I was like all right, let's see what Beyonce does with it. And I was like, okay, it's all right, like if you're going to do a song that's super popular, like that, I'm like I'm expecting, like to be wowed, and it was all right. So I picked two songs that I did, like Texas Hold'em and Most Wanted, which I think had Miley Cyrus sound in it.
Rick Costa:Those were, those were the only two that I was like, oh, I could kind of jam with this, but the rest I was like well go ahead. I was going to say Jolene, I was like I was expecting more, not saying it was bad, but just was expecting more, especially because it's Beyonce. You know she has a beautiful voice.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, ashley exactly, ashley, she does the thing is, she also remade Blackbird. I don't know if you know.
Maurio Dawson :Blackbird is a very poignant song which was written by Paul McCartney and if you know the history of the song, the history of the song is based upon the Little Rock Nine, who actually were the first integrated kids in Arkansas. But he was over in the UK seeing all the hate and the racism that was going on towards these kids and he wrote a song about the Little Rock Nine and that's really what that song is based upon. So for him to again, her rendition is actually very beautiful because it's a solemn song. It's not a upbeat song. Blackbird is actually a very sad song and it's country, but to me it's's more folk. But folk and country can interchange.
Maurio Dawson :But I thought Herbendition was done very well. And then also she's taking this opportunity to expose us to a lot of other African American country artists that I was not aware of, like Tanner Bell one. Willie Jones was another one I was not aware of. Tanner Bell is one, willie Jones was another one. I was not familiar with their music but because I was able to listen to this and say, okay, who is that? I went and Googled them and like, oh, okay, I can get into it. Because I personally am not a fan of country music in general, because it just-.
Carmen Lezeth:The twang, it's the twang, it's the twang and some people twang, it's the twang.
Maurio Dawson :And some people say country music is storytelling. Well, our music is storytelling. Yes, everyone has a story. It's just how it's delivered and depicted and there's and I believe there's a right way and a wrong way to deliver music. You know, every other word doesn't have to be.
Carmen Lezeth:Wait, wait. Can I just intervene? Let's that there's a right and wrong way for you as an individual. To receive it Right to receive it. Okay, let's just be clear Because I love rap, so do I. A lot of people can't handle rap because they can't receive it. That's not their thing. I feel the same way with you about country, but I just want to make sure that we don't want to degrade art. No, no, no.
Maurio Dawson :I'm not, yeah, I just. If you listen to this country album, it's not really a country album. And then Beyonce.
Carmen Lezeth:Didn't Beyonce say that it wasn't a country album?
Maurio Dawson :She said it's not a country album. She said it's a Beyonce album. That's right. There you go. But because all of this controversy and all of this stemmed from when she went on the Country Music Awards, the CMAs, with the Chicks and at the time the the chicks were blacklisted and she brought them out and she performed with them and people were all in an uproar. People are walking out during our performance and protest, you know, because wait but, mario, let's talk about what that really is and look at.
Carmen Lezeth:I understand that we don't normally talk about politics and race on this show and I talked about that in my latest podcast, but there are going to be times when we need to talk about it and as long as we do it respectfully and kindly and respect, I'm okay with it. But it's not our everyday thing. But why do you believe that the album that came out stemmed from that performance? On this, I kept saying the CMTs, but the CMAs what's your thought process on that?
Maurio Dawson :Well, that's layered. I know there was some controversy with the chicks at the time and they were an issue within themselves, right. And then Beyonce has been pigeonholed into a category of an R&B singer or whatever, and she's quote, unquote, not country. So that was a second part of this. I don't want to say it's because she's a Black woman.
Carmen Lezeth:You know what and you know what I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it.
Maurio Dawson :So I am, I'm going to say it, I'm sorry, well the only reason I'm trying not to say that is because I don't want to be disrespectful to the other Black artists who are country artists. But here's the thing I wouldn't, but I disagree with you.
Carmen Lezeth:Look it, and I'm not going to fight with you.
Maurio Dawson :No no.
Carmen Lezeth:Here's my feeling. I didn't even know Other than Hootie and the Blowfish guy whose name I still don't know.
Maurio Dawson :Darius Rucker.
Carmen Lezeth:Darius Rucker, I black country person except that Beyonce just turned around. Right, but they're not so fantastical that I know them.
Maurio Dawson :No.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't know them. So why is that? What is the layering of this situation that we as a public are just finding out about some of these artists who happen to be black? And, by the way, I didn't know until Beyonce's album that country music started in the African-American community in slavery times.
Maurio Dawson :It came from Africa In.
Carmen Lezeth:Africa. It came over right the whole banjo conversation. And here's what I'm trying to say to white people and I'm saying white people, I know, I know this is know. I know this is painful. I know this is painful when we are just learning new things, when we are understanding and having the ability to be smarter about where things originated. We should embrace that, not push it away. This is a fact, this is not hearsay, this is not pretend. This is a fact, this is not hearsay, this is not pretend. And I am angry that I keep having to learn new things about my country. I am angry about you should be angry about it too. You should be angry that you don't know this about country music.
Maurio Dawson :Go ahead. I mean, it's country music as a whole. It's just not my. It will never probably be my favorite genre, but I'm open to learning more about it, only because of the of the um, the artists that I'm discovering through this, and it's opened my eyes to the different forms of country music.
Carmen Lezeth:It's not just I know, but just because people are black and I have to like their music, wait, wait, wait.
Carmen Lezeth:But I'm just gonna say just because black people are doing country music doesn't mean I have to like it. I had a conversation with billy, my brother from another mother, and he was like all up in arms about beyonce, beyonce, this beyonce, that, and I was like lemonade, like I'm a huge lemonade fan. That's one of her albums. If you don't know, she's had eight albums, okay, like full-on amazing albums, and my favorite is lemonade. And what I was saying to him, because he's you were mad, weren't you?
Maurio Dawson :you had you said you was angry. You know angry chick if you like lemonade. You was mad, it was an angry album.
Carmen Lezeth:It was so good, it was so amazingly done and it was so the the. The thing about beyonce is she's so layered, she's so intricate in how she presents her music. And I'm going to say this and piss a lot of people off, but Prince is the only other artist that I think can get at my heart in the same way that Beyonce, and Beyonce isn't one of my favorite artists. I'm not a Beyonce-like crazy person, but when I listen to Beyonce's entire albums and I do because I respect her I think she's amazing. I'm shook by her ability to write and sing and put together something and her fashion. It's all of it. She is a genius artist.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:And the idea that someone like Megan Kelly or whatever Kelly, whatever the fuck her name is can't call her a queen. Nobody's calling her a motherfucking queen, like Beyonce isn't walking around calling herself a motherfucking queen.
Maurio Dawson :No, she doesn't.
Carmen Lezeth:We call people queens because we revere them. Like that's the weird thing about the Megan Kelly thing? It's like girl, you don't even get what queen means. Bitch, why are you even talking about it? You don't even get. It means bitch, why are you even talking about it? You don't even get it. It's not even a black thing. You don't even get the honor in it. Bitch, you don't get it. What am I missing in the laughter? No, it's because you're going hard. I'm not even going off, okay, I'm just saying I'm not a country person, music fan at all. I don't like the twang. Texas Hold'em was interesting. I love this album because of the controversy and the artistry and the brilliance of it and the reasoning and the beauty of it. Come on, that is something. That is art, baby, that is art that is beautiful.
Maurio Dawson :Well, you know what we're talking about it. Art is discussed Whether you like, like, like Rick likes Texas, hold' about it. And artists discussed whether you like, like, like rick likes texas, hold them. And he likes uh, was it two most wanted, right, most fun? Yeah, two most wanted, but see, those are two songs that he hadn't, he wouldn't have thought about liking before you understand what I'm saying. So you know it's. It's still exposing and, because we're having conversations, probably you exposed yourself to something you probably wouldn't normally listen to. Right, rick, right, right, but it's also, art is discussion. You can appreciate it.
Maurio Dawson :Appreciation. It's agreeing, it's disagreeing. It sparks conversation, it sparks thought. That's the purpose of art.
Carmen Lezeth:That's art, that's art. Let me just say hi to Brian, hi, brian, hey, brian Ghosttown's album First, first, last time is really good.
Maurio Dawson :What's ghost towns album I?
Carmen Lezeth:don't know what that is. Ghost towns is the name of a group. Oh okay, I didn't know that. I'm sorry, but hi, brian, thank you for stopping by and ash love you. Yeah, right off the hop she's come out rocking who she is exactly. Yes, I love that. Cynthia rick. I'm sorry we're in the mic, but please, that's right.
Cynthia Ruiz:I mean I listen to some country. It's like it's not my go to music, but I do appreciate it. I listen to all kinds of music. My Pandora has all kinds of music. Like you said, carmen, beyonce is not my top artist, but I can appreciate her music ok, wait, wait, wait.
Carmen Lezeth:I just want to be clear. I love Beyonce. I do, too. I love her. I love her as an artist, as an art, I revere her. I just want to be clear. This album is not my favorite. I listened to it from beginning to end and I enjoyed some of the songs, but I'm a little. Not for me, but it's white people and country music. I'm laughing little. It's not a banger, but you know it's not for me, but but it's white people in country music I'm laughing my ass off.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm freaked out about it. Go ahead, cynthia, I'm sorry.
Cynthia Ruiz:The Texas hold them song just kind of reminds me of another line dance song like the cha-cha slide or, you know, the Cupid shuffle.
Rick Costa:That's all it reminds me of, yeah rick uh, kind of going along with what mario said. When you see people going to a place where they feature art, they don't just look at it, they discuss, they talk about it. This is what I see and this is what I. This makes me feel this way. And art, that is exactly right, what he says, exactly right. You discuss it, you talk about it and you, your point of view could be completely different. You see something I don't see and I'm like I don't see, but they see that and you can't say you're wrong. That's not what you, you know. You see it differently, you have a different perspective. So to say somebody's wrong is just ridiculous.
Carmen Lezeth:Mario, what is your feeling? I mean, I know that you're nicer than I am, but this whole queen conversation really pissed me off.
Maurio Dawson :I mean. Well, you know what, in music they give everybody a title Prince was Prince. They call Patti LaBelle the godmother of soul. They call Aretha the no, but we use queen pretty liberally. They call Aretha, frankly, the queen of soul, right.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't know, but the word queen is pretty usable.
Maurio Dawson :It's being revered as the top of something. You understand what I'm saying. It's not that she is a literal queen. She is at the top of her game, okay, but can I, can, I, can I Say it, say it I'm going to say it.
Carmen Lezeth:The reason why Megyn Kelly is all over all like you know, her clutching her pearls and panties in a bunch is a fucking jealousy thing that I can't understand. With white people Like white people, like white women and I know, I know I'm a lose followers and shit. It's all good, but because I can't be who I'm not, I can't do it. No, why would you be so upset and angry about somebody being called a queen? A queen is an honor.
Carmen Lezeth:It is something that we bestow on somebody that we respect and feel has done something brilliant and amazing. And the fact that, man, if I knew Megyn Kelly, I swear to God I would sit down and have a conversation with her. Like bitch, you just made yourself look so motherfucking stupid.
Maurio Dawson :But not to her base, I know, but her base.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, but here's the thing. Here's the thing I'm done with her base, because her base is part of my country and I still have faith in the people in my country that they are good and decent human beings and they understand nuance. They do. We keep thinking that these people are stupid as fuck and that's why Megan is doing what she's doing.
Maurio Dawson :Brian, you're right. Calling anyone royal title is just a sign of respect.
Carmen Lezeth:Brian exactly.
Maurio Dawson :You get it.
Carmen Lezeth:He gets it. He's in Texas, he gets it.
Maurio Dawson :That's what you mean.
Carmen Lezeth:But that's what I'm saying. I'm so angry with her for doing that, for doing that whole video. Hey, Rick, can you put up that TikTok? Do you have the TikToks as well?
Maurio Dawson :Oh, I can bring it up yeah, in the meantime, what did they call Michael Jackson?
Carmen Lezeth:I don't remember, but the king of pop, okay, but I think that's a different thing. Okay, okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. Calling someone the king of pop is different than we call people queen. What I felt was happening with Megyn Kelly was she was upset with the terminology of queen. You know what I mean. Like that's what I heard from that whole clip.
Maurio Dawson :She was bothered by it, because we call queen.
Carmen Lezeth:We call different people queen at different times because it's something they've done. That is an elevated state.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:It's a black thing. Yeah, it is a black thing. And again, it's not that I want to get into racism, but you know what I don't want to do on my podcast or who I am. I don't want to pretend that things don't exist.
Maurio Dawson :No, okay, let's turn it on its head. What brought you joy from the album? We know what brought Rick joy. What brought you joy?
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, can I go first, you go first. Okay, no-transcript was saying this whole kind of idea that she didn't have no right to. She's not really country, she ain't got no right to do this song and blah blah. But in the same breath, in the same interview, as being like oh right, shania twain when she did that song and popped out, was fine, right like so my joy in this album is that it's making us have the conversations and I have faith I do.
Carmen Lezeth:I have faith in white people. I have faith in the american people, and of white people specifically during this time, to understand motherfucking nuance and understand a history, even if they're, at first, you know, being defensive. Look at Mario's diet. I know, I know I'm losing people, but I also think I have to be who.
Maurio Dawson :I am Show, show, bang bang, you know.
Carmen Lezeth:We're about to put a Zoom call by ourselves. I'm good, but listen, I do. I have faith in people that they understand the layers of things. This is bullshit, come on.
Maurio Dawson :Oh, come on, Alma, you better say it for the people in the back. She said John Schneider, it was okay when you're taking Tyler Perry's money, boom, that's right, he was being paid by a black man and it was all good.
Carmen Lezeth:But now, you know, that's right.
Maurio Dawson :Go ahead.
Carmen Lezeth:Alma Say it for the people in the back, that's my wife Come on.
Cynthia Ruiz:That's my wife. What brought me joy was basically you know that Dolly Parton gave her a stamp of approval. You're mixing black and white right there.
Maurio Dawson :So, what is the?
Carmen Lezeth:problem. That's it. And if Dolly Parton gets it, I don't understand why we don't have faith in the rest of America to get it. You know, let me read what Ashton said we should be encouraging each other as they branch out and show their range, not deterring people from wanting to show their abilities. Exactly Brian just said you'll be mind-blowing when you see my music playlist. You won't be able to keep up. Okay, Challenge accepted. Yaya brings me joy. I love Yaya.
Cynthia Ruiz:That's why I'm here. Can I just tell you about Yaya? I heard that song and I felt like I was in church. I was like I was going with it.
Carmen Lezeth:Hey Sweet Pea, Bye, Sweet Pea. Love you, Rick thoughts.
Rick Costa:I told you already. I said the Texas Hold'em. I can jam with that. And then the Miley Cyrus one. What was it? Two Most Wanted.
Carmen Lezeth:I wrote it down, so I don't forget, I love that one too. That's a good one. Miley Cyrus is brilliant.
Rick Costa:I love good harmony, yes, and they harmonize together very, very well. And I didn't know, I heard a different voice. I was like I think I know that voice. I was like that's Miley Cyrus.
Carmen Lezeth:I think it's and kind of this album in general and how it's affecting people in the country.
Rick Costa:Genre well, I agree with you about the whole. Sounds like she kind of jealous. Oh, why would you say that? Like, why do you have a problem with calling somebody queen? Like you know, when somebody excels at something, it's something that people do, you know. Or if you're at an event and somebody's like, yeah, it's queen, like where they use that as well, but um, but yeah, when somebody's excelling at something, it's not unusual to call somebody a queen or a king, like you know. So if you just go out in the street and be like famous female black singer, I bet you more people are not gonna say beyonce no you don't think so no, do you guys?
Maurio Dawson :did you guys know? I bet you, none of us, me included, I didn't know who linda martell was.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't know, know who Linda Martell is.
Maurio Dawson :Linda Martell is the first Black woman ever to play at the Grand Ole Opry.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, I do know her name, you're right.
Maurio Dawson :And if you listen to the album she's in several of the interludes on this Cowboy Cotter album and I was like who is Linda Martell? And again went to go look her up and mine was blown. I'm like, oh wow, that's history right there. And then the other thing is there's the interlude with Willie Nelson, which I think is hilarious.
Maurio Dawson :Yes, it is great he's playing the DJ. Yes, he says. If there's one thing you can take away from our set today, let it be this. Sometimes you can take away from our set today, Let it be this. Sometimes you don't know what you like and then someone you trust turns you on to some real good shit, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I'm here. He said up next on the Smoke Hour is Just For Fun.
TikTok:Yes.
Maurio Dawson :So I mean, like come on now, he said sometimes you don't know until somebody introduces you to it. And that's what she really kind of did. That kind of summarized this album for me. She really introduced me to a lot of people I just would have never heard of, and I think it's dope.
Carmen Lezeth:And can I say this this is again a little bit on the negative, but I feel it in my heart to share we revere people when they die, and what I mean by people is I mean Black people. So people die, and what I mean by people is I mean black people. So people in the white community are all about muhammad ali. Oh, muhammad ali is amazing, he's great, whatever, but they forget. Cassius clay, who became muhammad ali, was hated because he wouldn't go into war, he wouldn't be going to the military, and he was vilified. We do the same thing with martin, and when I say we, I'm talking about white people.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, like like we not me y'all'all hated Martin Luther King when he was alive and I don't mean you personally, I mean white folk hated him because of what he was doing. But now that he's dead, we all up in Martin Luther King Jr's business. He was the savior of-.
Maurio Dawson :But they really aren't that into him anyway, because all they know is the I have a dream speech.
Carmen Lezeth:They have no exactly history of what that man persevered and did, so let's exactly, exactly, and I don't want to say all white people, but I'm trying to give you information right now, like what we need to do is revere people while they are alive and stop accidentally because I think it's accidental. I don't think people are trying to be racist on purpose, but when you are vil, vilifying Beyonce, I don't care if you don't like her music. You don't need to like her music. You don't need to respect or even enjoy anything that she does.
Carmen Lezeth:I could care less about most country music, but when you turn around and are evil and you don't see the nuance and you dismiss her, that's when I have a problem. That's when I have a problem. You cannot turn around and say that she has no right to be in country music without knowing the history of country music. But let's just even make it smaller than that, because I didn't even know the history of country music until her album came out. Let's make it simpler. You can't do that. And then be okay with all of the country artists. Taylor swift is another one, shania twain there are all of these artists who came from country music and planting themselves into other genres and make millions of dollars can't be a hypocrite. Is what I'm saying yeah, mcgrath and nelly who tim mcgr, country singer.
Cynthia Ruiz:He made a song with Nelly.
Maurio Dawson :He made a song with Nelly, that's right. He sure did.
Cynthia Ruiz:Yep.
Maurio Dawson :But Nelly also did another country song with another group, right it was. He had two country hits which he was the first rapper to do that before.
Carmen Lezeth:Here's the funny part. I don't know enough country music people to even be saying it, but we know the people that made it in pop music, you know in hip hop or whatever it is.
Maurio Dawson :Here's the perfect example of the, the, the roles being reversed. What's her name? Maren Morris. She started out. She's Maren Morris. She had a song with that. She had with Alicia Keys, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, meet me in the middle, right, that was an R&B. That came out as an R&B song but people didn't have any problems. When she went right over in the country and she became you know, and he said Cowboy Troy was accepting it. I don't know who is Cowboy Troy, you want?
Carmen Lezeth:we need music. Tell us the song, because we don't know who.
Maurio Dawson :Cowboy.
Carmen Lezeth:Troy is. Let me google him because I don't. Is Cowboy Troy? We need music. Tell us the song, because we don't know who Cowboy Troy is.
Maurio Dawson :Let me Google him, because I don't know.
Rick Costa:Cowboy Troy, oh he's a black guy. Okay, she must have heard us talking about Prince.
Carmen Lezeth:You know what I was on TikTok and Toby was live and I went on her live for a minute. I was at work and her and Tony were on. They were talking and I just need to see. Toby is a very beautiful woman, gorgeous woman. Okay, what are you showing us, mario?
Maurio Dawson :Because of my screen.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, and what about Cowboy Troy?
Maurio Dawson :He said Brian says he's accepted in the country music.
Carmen Lezeth:But why wouldn't he be? It seems like a lot of black artists are.
Maurio Dawson :I mean, there are a lot of black artists out there.
Carmen Lezeth:But is his point that Cowboy Troy was somebody in other genres? Because I've never heard of him, but not that I'm the music aficionado.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, and there's another young man. He was just on Dancing with the Stars. He's a cowboy. He's a Black country artist, kay Brown. Huh, kay Brown. Kay Brown didn't know he was Black until he was almost an adult. So let's start there. I'm just going to start right there.
Carmen Lezeth:Cynthia, you see, I'm drinking my.
Rick Costa:You made me think of the skate with the guy going into KKK.
Maurio Dawson :That was black and he was like I mean the King Brown said that himself, it's not that I'm making that up. He said he didn't know he was black. I swear by hand to.
Carmen Lezeth:Jesus. That's okay. That's the world I hope we live in someday where color is just another thing like our color. But we are not there yet. That's the problem. We are not there yet, people. Okay, we are not there yet.
Rick Costa:Color matters right now, so I saw something really, really funny um, yesterday. Matter of fact, I just came on my feed for some reason. It was a black comedian and he goes you know what, what, what if the roles were reversed? What if it was the white people that were the slaves? What, what, what kind of, what kind of spirituals would they have, can you imagine? So he starts going like just a small town girl living in a lonely world.
Carmen Lezeth:I was dying, it was so funny can you segue into showing the um the talk of you want both the second one yeah, show the second one, because that's kind of funny. I mean I guess we could show both, but show the second one first chicken with the train, okay I thought it was relevant I don't know I don't see.
Cynthia Ruiz:The name of the song is cracking me up yeah, right hiccup.
Maurio Dawson :Oh, I saw this one, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:I said this to everyone, right.
Rick Costa:Yeah, yeah. Let me go ahead.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah go ahead.
TikTok:Jolie, jolie, jolie, bitch Jolie, I'm one of your girl. Yeah, best to not cover my man. Bitch, jolie, jolie, Jolie, jolie. I'm making it clear so you can understand. Bitch, I see you there with your thin blonde hair. I'm going to whip your ass from here to there If you ever say hello to my man again. I know my man is fine as hell, but that is mine. Bitch, can't you tell you don't compete, so you can't compare. You don't even got no derriere. I'm that booty. One more time, Let me tell you one thing about me I'm a Louisiana, texas, banshee, creole bitch and I'ma beat your ass if you talking shit. Hold up, jay, hold up, jay. Hold my earrings.
Maurio Dawson :Now my dude.
Cynthia Ruiz:Okay, so maybe this was the version that Megyn Kelly was talking about.
Maurio Dawson :Right For those who are listening to us and can't see us. It says what white people are hearing, what they hear when they hear Beyonce's version of Joe.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, it was so funny. Can I just tell you I was crying. It was so funny because it's like that's not what I heard, but I could.
Maurio Dawson :But that's what they're hearing. I'm like I didn't hear that.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, but wait, wait. Can we have a nuanced conversation? Do you think that it's possible that white folk it's just hard to be in a situation where they're constantly being told now that things are different than what they're used to understanding. We can lie about our history. You know what I mean. Like, what do you think about that?
Maurio Dawson :The word purist comes to mind, and that goes on.
Carmen Lezeth:So many different levels You're going to have to explain that. I need you to explain it.
Maurio Dawson :Purist can go to the people who believe in the sanctity of the original of something, whereas they'll say, oh, I'm a purist when it comes to country music, or I'm a purist when it comes to R&B, where only they believe certain people fit into a category. I'm a purist when it comes to race, when I'm a purist when it comes to people don't believe in mixing races, they're purists. They don't believe in the evolution or developing new ideas because they are stuck in a way of things, the way things they believe they should be. Does that make sense?
Carmen Lezeth:You're saying that country music, people are saying that they're purists, because you can only be country music if you are what White. Okay, I just want to make sure we're on the same page that they're purists, because you can only be country music if you are what white.
Maurio Dawson :Okay, I just want to make sure we're on the same page yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean it's just what it is, because I mean but. But, like brian said, most people of all generations are scared of change all ethnicities, and that's and that's very true, brian, because they're, you know, just like you know, not to get into race anymore than we've already done today. But you know, people have. They have. I still get looks. I've been with my wife for 30 years but I still get looks. You know what I'm saying To me. I don't care anymore, I don't see it anymore.
Maurio Dawson :But people, people of Hispanic race, get pissed off. People who are Black get pissed off. And you know the same thing about people giving me shit because they think that I don't love black women. That has never been the case. My mama's a black woman. I love a black woman, but I don't feel like I have to defend myself, just like everybody else. They feel like they shouldn't have to defend themselves and, being able to evolve, you don't have to be stuck somewhere. You understand what I'm saying. If that's not your thing, that doesn't have to be your thing, but you don't have to make it everybody else's thing, and I think that's where I'm at. If you don't like it, okay, cool, you don't like it. But you don't have to say I don't like it. You shouldn't like it. Everybody else shouldn't like it either, because I don't like it.
Carmen Lezeth:And it's wrong. It's wrong. It shouldn't be able to say that. But, cynthia, what are your thoughts?
Cynthia Ruiz:and rick, because I totally agree, and you know it also happens with religion. I know we don't talk about religion, but it does happen with religion today everything's open rick is like oh my god, don't.
Cynthia Ruiz:We're in the weeds, now we're in the weeds, you know there are some, there are some religions that do try to push their beliefs on other people, and it's like you know, as long as I believe in god, I believe in some type of higher power, somebody that's bigger than me, then that's all that should matter. You shouldn't care what my beliefs are, and you know you have your opinion. That's it, rick.
Rick Costa:Yeah, there's an interesting thing in that Christian music community. I especially remember, even when I was younger, so when I was first getting into my belief system, right, all there was was country, bluegrass, everything southern gospel. They didn't have no modern version of christian, nothing. Now it's. You got everything.
Rick Costa:But there was a time when, like hard rock, christian started coming into play. And then rap started coming into play and I was like a lot of people I thought this was very interesting. Well, again, some people, they didn't like neither one. No, that's not of god. That's not of god. Some people are like oh, rock is cool, but rap, no, that's of the devil. I'm like why? And then even one preacher who was pretty famous literally said he was not gonna have a guy he didn't know he was a. He was a. Not have a guy come to his church once he found out he was a rapper. And he's like no, that's not of God. I'm like you are so stupid. One thing I noticed looking at the lyrics of the rock Christian and then the rap Christian. The lyrics of the rap blew me away. Comparatively to the rock. The rock was just like basic, but the rap stuff I was like, ooh, bars, what Say that again. It was deep stuff.
Cynthia Ruiz:They're still preaching the word of God. So it's like, who cares how they're doing it?
Maurio Dawson :It's coming out how it's packaged. It doesn't matter how it's packaged, yeah, exactly.
Cynthia Ruiz:There's a guy on TikTok I don't know if you guys have seen it who does a version of preaching about God to Texas Hold'em and it's beautiful.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, like you said, even with the gospel music man, the purists of the Winans and Shirley Caesars at the back of the day. Man, when they when Kirk Franklin first came out, they were in the uproar about Kirk Franklin. Come on now. The man is still delivering the message.
Rick Costa:It doesn't matter how it's wrapped up, you as long as you're getting the gift and the thing that would really tick me off even to this day it still does, because I still see people doing it in the churches. They'll say god doesn't like that kind of music you ain't god sit down and shut up you. You don't like that music. Wow, like that.
Carmen Lezeth:Whatever it's not god, shut up, go ahead.
Rick Costa:Rick preach who woulded me off. Sorry, come on now.
Cynthia Ruiz:Oh, he got hit. Come on, Rick.
Carmen Lezeth:Get Rick going. Hey, there I see many Indian, punjabi artists collaborating with hip hop rappers and singers like Sia. Is that how? We say it yeah, Sia I think it's a beautiful thing that artists integrate their talent in different genres.
Maurio Dawson :Gigi, thank you Absolutely, Gigi another perfect example is Missy Yelly and Get your Freak On.
Carmen Lezeth:That's right. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Alma just said exactly.
Carmen Lezeth:We are to share the good word with all people and look just for all the atheists out there. I do have atheist people who follow my channel. Look, whatever works for you is fine. I think my whole thing about what's happening now whether it's this whole thing with Beyonce or whatever situation when it comes to issues of race or things that we in our gut just automatically start to be defensive about please check yourself. There is nuance to everything and I know white people are having a hard time.
Carmen Lezeth:I said this in my podcast last week. I did a Carmen talk and I got some feedback and I know people listen to it and I know it was a little bit hard to listen to. But here's the thing it's. We are in a world right now where people are just automatically, quickly, without thinking, without doing the actual work, reacting to shit. Your hate for Beyonce is stupid. You don't need to hate Beyonce. Beyonce is one of the geniuses of our time and I'm I'm not like a Beyonce crazy person. I'm not part of the beehive or anything, but the idea that if you go back with an open heart and an open mind and go back and listen to all of her albums which I own all of them, if you list, she is a storyteller and she's a great storyteller and she's a historian.
Carmen Lezeth:I know people are going to be all freaked out because I said that, but she does something that a lot of artists don't do. The only other person I think of that touches me this way is Prince. I know people are going to be upset. People are going to be upset, like, don't do that. Beyonce, prince, I am telling you right now, when it comes to the music and the genres that I love, I'm telling you no one else has done this kind of thing. With all of their albums, where they teach history, they teach me something new, they make me a better person than Beyonce, and I'm not a fan. I mean this album is fine, it's just not my favorite. But stop being a knee jerk reaction kind of person and start being a person who has depth, who listens to nuance, who looks deeper into what's going on. Please, I beg of you. This country is in so much trouble because y'all keep knee-jerking reaction to everything.
Maurio Dawson :Can I ask a question? Yes, when something bothers us so deeply or so viscerally, it's something in it that is within us that's really striking a chord, whether it be good or bad. And when we have a visceral response to something, especially if it's something you're unfamiliar with, you have to sometimes do self-reflection and say why is it bothering me so much? What is it about this thing that is just making me so upset? And if you do some self-reflection you'll learn something new about yourself.
Carmen Lezeth:But, mario, it's harder because I'm not trying to be disagreeable.
Maurio Dawson :No, no, no, I'm going to disagree with you for a moment.
Carmen Lezeth:I think white people are going through something right now and what they're going through is real. They're going through something which is they have always been right, in power, correct. They've been the inventors of everything. The history is the way it was taught to all of us, and now they're being told all of that is wrong. All of that is wrong. That is not true. The country music thing is a great, motherfucking example. Even I didn't know that country music wasn't a white thing.
Maurio Dawson :I learned and they're mad about it.
Carmen Lezeth:And rightfully so. But instead of being mad about being lied to to, what's happening is they're rejecting the information. You know what I mean like and and that's what's infuriating. When I learned about tulsa and I learned about rosewood and this happened during the whole fucking black lives matter march I was pissed at my country for not teaching me the truth about what happened to black communities that were of wealth and trying to establish themselves and were already established with their own income, with their own wall street black wall street their own abilities to, to, to create, and then they were totally killed, literally bombarded by airplanes and and and bombs and decimated.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, when I learned that as an American, as as a person who is a patriot and loves their motherfucking country, when I learned that, I was pissed. So if I'm pissed as a person of color, learning that, shit, white people are having a come to Jesus moment, and for the atheist, whatever that is for you, but I'm just saying they're having a moment to Jesus moment. And for the atheists, whatever that is for you, but I'm just saying they're having a moment. Yeah, that is really hard and I fucking get it. I get it to the ability that I can.
Rick Costa:Yeah, I watched a show. I wish I could remember what the name of it was, but and it was, it was showing the Tulsa thing, cause it was like a time travel thing. I went back in time and they went into the Tulsa what are they called in?
Maurio Dawson :Tulsa.
Rick Costa:Black. Wall Street Wasn't there like a Tulsa massacre, not massacre.
Carmen Lezeth:Tulsa massacre.
Rick Costa:I watched it. I was like oh, wow. And then I was like I've been listening to people talk about the show and they're like, yeah, that was a real thing. I was like, wait, what. I was mad because I was like, wait, why is this not known? This is crazy. This is history, not in school no, that's right, I was mad.
Maurio Dawson :Only reason I knew about it is because my grandparents taught me about it.
Carmen Lezeth:Um, what a blessing.
Maurio Dawson :I'm glad that you knew that, because I didn't know nothing yeah, I grew up knowing about black wall street and about that because it was you know for for people of the south. You know, a lot of our stories are told through our ancestors. That's right and so, therefore, and it was important to to share the stories. Now, some of the accuracy you know, right, but you get the general gist of and then you can go back and verify for yourself. But, yeah, it definitely. And then another another group of people were made aware of the, the. The Tulsa massacre was through Lovecraft country. Oh, yes.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, if you watch Lovecraft Country, which is considered a horror genre, but it was still the massacre of all these black people, you know, and you got to see part of that in there, but for sure you know it's. I think people are just mad because we're being, our history is being whitewashed.
Carmen Lezeth:Well, no, no, it has been whitewashed, but now it's coming to fruition with a truth is, and I think it's. Look at and I black folk in my life get mad at me because I'm trying to have as much compassion as I can for white folk who are learning something that I think is detrimental and painful to their idea of who they are in this country, and I think that's fair. I don't think that's a bad thing to acknowledge. I don't hate anyone in this country. I love my country. I have faith in the American people, even though they let me down over and over and over again, but I still have faith. And here's what I'm saying. We're all learning the truth about the United States and I think the best thing we can do is embrace that. Embrace that and become the country we can actually be by embracing it. By the way, black and people of color and indigenous people, we're not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. We're here.
Carmen Lezeth:So this idea that somehow you can keep denying it and I'm going to go back to the Megan Callie thing whatever the fuck her name is because I'm so pissed about her because she has a platform. She is the epitome of what a white woman is. You know what I mean. Like everything about her she's white, she's beautiful, she's smart, she's got all these people following her, whatever. And to get up there and say what she did. I wish I knew her, because I would call her and be like dude, what are you doing? You have all this power. What are you doing? Embedding this crap? You know, this is the stuff that annoys me.
Carmen Lezeth:The kind of fueling of the continuous racism and that's what she was doing is continuing and fueling racism. You can put lipstick on it, you can put a bow on it, you can call it whatever you want. Her jealousy and her racism was shining, shining brightly, and I think we have to acknowledge that and realize that there's a fear in the white community. That's valid. But you know what? Get over it and move on and let's just figure it out.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't hate white people. I love white people. I do. I love white people. But we have got to figure it out to be really true Great, to be the great country we thought we were, we actually have to move through this part of us and the reason why I call it racism is because it is and you all know the nuances of it this whole hatred for Beyonce is about racism. Whole hatred for Beyonce is about racism. It's about racism. This is not about Dolly Parton or about Paul McCartney, or about her being in country or whatever. It's none of that. At the end of the day, if you sat with yourself, wrote in your journal and really had a conversation, this is about racism. You're angry that a black woman made country music, who is a an amazing artist, and walked into another genre.
Maurio Dawson :And made history. History she made history. Number one album number one country album, number one single, all number ones, all in the same week.
Carmen Lezeth:By the way, the reason why she has made history in country music is not because of me, it's because of country people listening to her motherfucking country music bitches. Get a grip. Brianrian, you said welcome to political, to political science. Everything you learned in high school is sugar-coated. Welcome to the real shit. I listen to my professor amen brian, amen for real yeah, and I'm sorry you look at I.
Carmen Lezeth:I know this podcast is billed as something we don't usually talk about racism and religion. But here's the other thing I know for sure and on my Carmen talks, I will talk about whatever I damn well please, and you don't have to listen to it. But we also can't be authentically myself, and this conversation is about race. It really is, and to shy away from it would be crazy. We're smarter than that. We're nuanced.
Maurio Dawson :You know what I mean Go ahead, mario, no, no, no, listen, it was on my spirit. I felt like I needed to bring the topic to the table.
Carmen Lezeth:It's not Mario's fault, by the way, don't at me either.
Rick Costa:Alma brought up the whole making of the Green Book thing and that's a whole movie in and of itself.
Carmen Lezeth:Wait, wait, wait. Did I miss something about Alma?
Rick Costa:She said that show also touched on the making of the Green Book and why it was so needed.
Carmen Lezeth:That's right, my grandmother had a Green Book, but why don't one of you explain what the Green Book is, please?
Rick Costa:Well, there's a funny part in the show where so basically it's these are places, restaurants, you can go where you're okay with Black people, basically.
Carmen Lezeth:And hotels it's not just restaurants Places you can go, you can go there.
Rick Costa:They're not going to try to lynch you, right? So in the show they went to this restaurant because it was in the book, didn't know that it got bought out by somebody else who was not pro-Black people, and so they're sitting down, they're like chilling, like everything's cool. Then all of a sudden the girl goes. I got need to get down here and she came back. She said we got to get out of here right now. We got to go now, now. And I was like wow that is.
Maurio Dawson :That's so crazy. And then there's also what they call sundown towns.
Rick Costa:Yep.
Carmen Lezeth:Wasn't that part of the Green Book, though that's part of the whole Green Book thing.
Rick Costa:That's all part, and in that TV show too, yeah hotels, restaurants, gas stations, cities.
Maurio Dawson :It was a path through the South to get all the way through safely and you had to be out of these sundown towns to make sure you stay alive to see the next day.
Carmen Lezeth:This was something that was told between networks of people of color, so you would know where to go and where not to go. Let me just say, growing up in Boston sorry, I love you, boston, but, cynthia, you know what I'm going to say we kind of had our own little green book without actually having it written down. You grew up where you could go and you couldn't go.
Cynthia Ruiz:It was very well established after dark or whatever, like right now, where I live, you live, in South Boston, I live in south boston, which was it's basically all irish. So back in 70s, early 80s, I was going to come to south boston. Looking like me, carmen, you know, like unless you were with a white person.
Carmen Lezeth:so I would go without carrier all the time, or I would be. It was why because I used to hang out in south boston, but only with other white people, I would never go. So it's the same kind of thing you knew as a person of color, where you could and could not go, and that's part of what all this is. And here's the thing white America I'm saying this on purpose. We need to know our history, because the only way we get better as a country and as a people is to understand a truth. This isn't about me being hateful to white I love white people. This isn't about me. I want us to understand a truth. This isn't about me being hateful to white I love white people. This isn't about me. I want us to know our truth, because we become stronger as a nation, as a people, when we know the truth of who we are.
TikTok:Yes.
Carmen Lezeth:You know what I mean. Alma just said I have a friend in San Diego that says they have a son downtown. We do Absolutely in San Diego.
Maurio Dawson :We do oh absolutely.
Carmen Lezeth:Melanie just said, so many people have crossed over from one genre of music to another Beyonce, the latest. I don't see the problem. Thank you, melanie, I agree with you. Hey, audrey, welcome. Audrey is Cynthia's sister.
Cynthia Ruiz:Hey Audrey.
Carmen Lezeth:But there's also people of color who are not supporting Beyonce's country song. Have you seen a TikTok video of a woman who's in her car listening to music with her daughter? Beyonce song comes on, the text is hold on. The mother says, oh no, this is not happening. So she changes the station and the daughter was like what the hell? Well, bravo to the daughter. You know what I mean. Like bravo to the daughter. Yeah, I mean, look, there's a lot of people who have angst, but I think we's why we're having the conversation, mara. I think that's why you wanted to have the conversation.
Maurio Dawson :A hundred percent. You know, it's just about. You know now, mind you, texas Hold'em was playing a lot and there's another meme it was another meme where the lady is the old black and white video and a woman. She goes to the Victrola and you hear Texas Hold'em playing and all of a sudden she takes the record off the Victrola and smashes it. She says if I hear that song one more time, that's right. Yeah, my God, this was such I'm sorry.
Carmen Lezeth:Go ahead, rick, I'm sorry.
Rick Costa:I think this doesn't apply necessarily to everything, but in a lot of things, if you have a problem, you have a problem, you have a problem, say.
Maurio Dawson :You have a problem. You have a problem, you have a problem. Say that. Say that Say it loud you have a problem. Come on now.
Carmen Lezeth:Woo, Rick is my co-host. Go ahead, baby Woo. Go ahead, Rick, Go ahead. That was good, yeah, you know what. But here's the thing I have faith in the American people. I do, I do, I do. If Andrea was here by the way, she's on a flight still and she was delayed, you know she would probably be like oh Carmen, you're so crazy. I think she's kind of a little bit lost faith in the American people. I still have hope, I love my country and I still have faith in us. I think we're great people. I think it takes us a long time to get wherever it is we need to be, but once we get there, we're solid. Look at Mara Mara's like I have faith. But wow, we are at one hour 13 minutes and we did not talk about OJ. We still can.
Maurio Dawson :Deuces.
Carmen Lezeth:Woo. Well, let's talk a little bit about OJ. Go ahead, Mario. Why don't you throw in?
Maurio Dawson :I said what I said, deuces.
Carmen Lezeth:What's deuces mean? I don't even know what that means.
Maurio Dawson :See you later.
Carmen Lezeth:See you later, bye, I mean.
Maurio Dawson :I don't, like you know he's so divisive Divisive rather. People are like he didn't do it or he did it wasn't there. I'm not on the journey, I don't care. I wish his family peace and solace because he was still a father. He still had children. I hope that his children are at peace. I hope the Goldman family is now at peace, because that was an ongoing thorn in their side. So shout out to the Goldman, shout out to the Simpsons. Let everybody be in peace and it's now over.
Cynthia Ruiz:Cynthia, I really don't care about that.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't care for the man, so I mean, I'm going to say something, but go ahead, Rick. I'm going to say something that's going to throw you all, but go ahead, Rick.
Rick Costa:I forgot the movie. Is it called barbershop, where the barber goes?
Carmen Lezeth:oh, jay did it, oh, they did it no, I'm gonna I'm just gonna say this part and then you guys can chime in and and we'll close it down. Um, so I moved here in 1994. I moved here in 1994, what, what, mario?
Maurio Dawson :my wife asked me did any of us see the last post that oj simpson did? I said I don't know. I have to look I I have no idea.
Carmen Lezeth:It's not like I followed him.
Maurio Dawson :Neither did.
Carmen Lezeth:I, audrey, just said. Well, technically, the Goldman are really not at peace because they did say that their hope for his accountability has ended, which is sad, absolutely true, absolutely true. So I moved here in 1994 in California, and I didn't just move to California, I actually landed in West LA in the neighborhood where OJ Simpson killed or did not kill his wife, depending on your perspective. I actually ended up buying a condo across the street, literally across the street from the place where this all happened. So the reason why I bring this up is I think people forget the nuance of what happened back then. So let me refresh your memory In 1991, rodney King, during the riots in Los Angeles, was beaten by cops.
Carmen Lezeth:Ridiculously. It was filmed on video. We didn't have phones back then, but it was on video. It was a huge news. You guys remember it right, the Rodney King thing, or whatever, and cops beat him or whatever, and that was 1991. It was a huge news. You guys remember it right? The Rodney or whatever, and cops beat him or whatever, and it was, that was 1991. That was March of 1991. And when I moved here in 1994, that was still a really big part of our ethos as a country. Right that all of these cops beat a black man after pulling him out of his tractor, trailer thing or whatever, to a pulp. And then no one was held accountable for that. I don't know if people remember that, but nobody was held accountable for that. And then in April of 1995, oj Simpsons. They came out and said that he was not guilty. Right, that was what happened.
Carmen Lezeth:So I was here in Los Angeles, I was living. I had a roommate at the time, chris Leterzo, and we had a huge fight about this. But I was one of those people who was like, oh my God, yes, I was so happy about him being let go or whatever, donnie Cochran doing whatever. And people are like, oh my God, how could you? It's not that I believed that he didn't kill his wife, that was not the controversy, that was not the issue. I absolutely know that motherfucking killed his wife and killed Ron Goldman. That was not the problem.
Carmen Lezeth:But what people don't remember back then is that what people were feeling is would you be treated the same if you were wealthy and black, like you were wealthy and white? What a lot of people of color were excited about, wasn't that? Oj got off? And I'm not trying to speak for all people of color were excited about, wasn't that OJ got off? And I'm not trying to speak for all people of color, but I'm just saying my feeling and what I know from people I hang out with who are people of color. We were excited to see that the justice system was the same if you were rich. Does that make sense? Like that's what the exuberance was of? Oh so if you have money, it don't matter what color your ear is. You will get off, because white people got off all the time and continue to get off if they have a lot of money. Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:So I just want to throw that out there. I have never, not once ever, thought that he was not guilty and I was glad that he was in prison. I don't give a fuck that he died. I'll just say that straight up. And I'm just sad that he didn't suffer more. What?
Maurio Dawson :Pick me. I have a fun fact, something else you don't know about me.
Carmen Lezeth:I just wanted to give that statement so people would understand that this is OJ related. Go ahead OJ related. Go ahead baby.
Maurio Dawson :I worked with Chris Darden right after the OJ trial.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh my God, oh my God, poor Chris Darden. He went through so much.
Maurio Dawson :He actually. I remember that because I was still at Cal State, LA, at the time.
Carmen Lezeth:Tell people who Chris Darden is on the audio. Chris. Darden was one of the prosecuting attorneys with Marsha is it Marsha Gray, marsha Gray, marsha Gray, and he was Black. He was Black, yeah.
Maurio Dawson :Chris Darden was a Black man who was one of the prosecuting attorneys for the OJ trial and I was a student worker at Cal State, la at the time and I was working in the criminal justice department as an aide. I didn't know that Another fun fact about me that you didn't know. So I was working in the criminal justice department at Cal State LA and it was such a big deal. News reporters were everywhere all over campus. We literally had to have a security guard outside of our office door just so he can come into the office to do his work before he got ready to clap to go to class. We had to keep security outside the classrooms. It was a madhouse.
Maurio Dawson :But when I got to sit down and talk to him on a one-on-one basis, you could see the turmoil, yeah, his face all the time about, um, how the outcome of that case came to be. And he actually got. He talked about the case quite a bit in that in a couple of his classes that semester or that, yeah, that quarter, cause he's, he taught there for almost a year. Wow, really really nice man, very quiet, very reserved, but very troubled. For sure. I can say that with honesty. He was very troubled about the outcome and he said I, you know we did our best, but it just didn't work out in our favor. But he said all the evidence was there.
Carmen Lezeth:Because Johnny Cochran was crazy amazing People get so mad at. Like Johnny Cochran. I'm like bitch. If I was in trouble, you know who I'd hire.
Maurio Dawson :I'm calling Johnny Cochran.
Carmen Lezeth:Johnny Cochran Okay.
Rick Costa:If the glove don't fit, you must quit, but go ahead. Rick Cynthia, your thoughts about the past, I mean, like like tomorrow said I wasn't there, did I have a feeling one way or the other? I'm like carmen, I, like you, probably did um well, and I agree too, though it's nice to see that you know it's possible to get off even though you're not white. Yeah, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:It's a tough one, though. It's a tough one because you don't, you, I mean, I see, I agree with you, rick, but it's kind of like so that becomes a socioeconomic situation. So if you have money, you get off on stuff. So our justice system really isn't equal. I don't have that kind of money to have that kind of defense. You know what I mean. So, but yeah, I, I, I mean that's what that was about. And, by the way, my roommate at the time, chris Leterzo oh my God, we had such a fight. He was so angry with me because he heard me in my room. I was like we had such a huge fight about he's a white man, but it was just so amazingly like he was so angry with me. But, cynthia, thoughts, you loved OJ Go ahead, admit it.
Cynthia Ruiz:I'm just waiting for it to be on an episode of Keep it Up With the Kardashians or something.
Carmen Lezeth:Because you know that it's going to be. Oh right, the Kardashians are related, right, yeah, because they're bad.
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, Rob Kardashian. Robert Kardashian was one of the attorneys.
Carmen Lezeth:That's right. He was one of the attorneys, right.
Cynthia Ruiz:That's right, he was one of the attorneys on the defense with Johnny Cochran.
Maurio Dawson :Mm-hmm. Oh wow, amazing. I just saw the last video where he was denying that he was in hospice. That was his last tweet. Who OJ? Yeah, here, I'll play it for you.
Carmen Lezeth:No, no, no, Don't play it, don't play it. I don't want to promote him, I don't want to promote him, let's not promote him you said you can't trust the media.
Maurio Dawson :Basically.
Carmen Lezeth:No, no, no, no, no. I'm not trying to be rude, but I do think I want to be very clear. I am 99.99% sure he killed his wife and Ron Goldman, so I don't want to promote his fucking ass, but I want to explain what the exuberance was on my part and what I think a lot of people of color were. It wasn't about that he didn't kill them. It was that there was some weird equality that happened if you had money. You know what I mean. That's what happened. Ash just said. Apparently Chris said good riddance when he heard of his passing, but apparently they were close. Who's Chris Kardashian? Oh, I don't. I know nothing about the.
Maurio Dawson :Kardashians. Chris with a K, and she's talking about Kardashian.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, well, technically, the Goldman are really not at peace because they did say oh, I read that already. Right, right, I feel bad for Ronald Ron Goldman. So when I first moved here I think Charlie and I talked about this a little bit Charlie Matera, who we had on the private lounge, we met at what used there was Mezzaluna, which is the restaurant that she left her sunglasses at, and Ronald Goldman, the waiter, brought them to her. Like, there's that part of the story and it's so vivid in my mind because I remember when I first moved here there were paparazzi everywhere. I got this apartment for like 540 bucks, I remember it. It was a studio apartment here in the heart of Brentwood and it was because nobody wanted to really live here anymore, because there was just so much drama going on. I was like I'm in.
Carmen Lezeth:I just moved here, I'm in and it was just kind of an incredible time. It was horrible, sad and yeah, I'm pretty sure, without a doubt, I don't think I'm. I would bet everything that he did do it. Uh, brian said so I shouldn't trade my truck in for a white bronco no, that would be no no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so we're almost at one hour 30 minutes. That went by so fast you did wow, that was a great topic, mario.
Carmen Lezeth:I would have never talked about Beyonce, so I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you, melanie just said Robert Blake died last year. Do you think he was guilty? Who's Robert Blake?
Maurio Dawson :Yeah, but Robert Blake went to jail.
Carmen Lezeth:Who's Robert Blake?
Maurio Dawson :He played Beretta. Yeah, what was he?
Carmen Lezeth:guilty of Don't break my heart.
Maurio Dawson :I loved Ber yeah, what did he do? I can't remember his crime but yeah, I remember that whole thing melanie.
Carmen Lezeth:We're gonna follow up on the next episode next week, because I don't even know what you're talking about, but I'm so sad, I'm heartbroken. Yeah, everyone, we're almost at the 130 mark. So I just wanted to say, first of all, thank you, mario, love you, thank you for coming by. I appreciate you, cynthia, as always. Hey, rick Costa, you know I love you, my man, you're so good. Thank you everyone, and let me just give a shout out again to people on LinkedIn, who I keep getting so many followers and I'm so excited. Thank you, thank you emails. I appreciate the DMs. We are working on swag. A couple of people have asked me for t-shirts and hats and somebody asked me for my hoodie. I'm going to hook it up. I'm going to do it soon, I swear. I promise what, mario.
Maurio Dawson :I asked for my swag a long time ago.
Carmen Lezeth:I know, you know what I want it to be quality. But I think I just got to bite the bullet and just go with it and I'm going to do it, I promise. But anyway, listen, thank you everyone for following us. Please go to YouTube, like us, follow and share. Please help us out with that because, as much as I don't give a fuck about how many people are liking us, we really do, we really really do. But investors, do we really?
Maurio Dawson :do, we really do, we really care.
Carmen Lezeth:We really, really, really do care. I'm going to be better about it, so please, if you could do that, I really appreciate you and I appreciate the likes, the share, the comments, and I don't know why everyone emails me, but you can also just put a comment somewhere. But I'm okay with you emailing me directly, it's all good.
Maurio Dawson :In the words of Rick smash that like button.
Carmen Lezeth:Thank you everyone. Have a great night. We'll be here next week and remember it's all about the joy. Bye everyone, bye. Thanks for stopping by. All about the joy. Be better and stay beautiful folks. Have a sweet day.
