Carmen Talk: Grace or Exile - A Cultural Reckoning and the Cost of Cutting People Off

Have we reached a breaking point with cancel culture? When did our default response to mistakes become permanent exile rather than creating space for growth? These are the questions at the heart of today's deeply personal exploration.

The Joey Swoll controversy serves as our starting point – a fitness influencer whose casual use of an offensive racial term sparked immediate backlash. While his apology seemed sincere, the momentum of internet outrage had already taken hold, eventually driving him from social media entirely. This pattern repeats itself daily across our digital landscape, raising crucial questions about what we're really trying to achieve when we "cancel" individuals.

This isn't about defending harmful behavior or giving free passes. It's about examining the difference between holding people accountable and cutting them off completely. When former Trump supporters begin expressing regret, when people acknowledge they've been misled, do we slam the door shut or create pathways toward understanding? The answer shapes not just individual relationships but our collective future.

There's a stark contrast between this individual accountability and the necessary consequences for corporate performative allyship. Target's journey from racial justice champion after George Floyd's murder to quietly dismantling those same DEI initiatives demonstrates why some cancellations are justified responses to cynical opportunism. Not all accountability should look the same.

Forgiveness isn't weakness – it's choosing discernment over erasure, boundaries over exile. It says, "I see the damage, and now I'm watching what you do next." Most of us have received grace at some point in our lives, not excusing our mistakes but keeping us in community long enough to learn something new. Extending that same opportunity to others might be the most radical act in our divided times. The question isn't whether to forgive, but how to forgive in ways that promote genuine transformation rather than easy absolution.

What kind of culture are we creating when our only response to "I'm sorry" is permanent rejection? Subscribe to join this ongoing conversation about finding the balance between accountability and healing in a world that desperately needs both.

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Cultural Division
• 0:44 Joey Swall Controversy Explained
• 2:49 Target's Performative Allyship
• 5:55 Forgiveness vs. Cancellation
• 7:22 Final Thoughts on Grace

Transcript

Carmen Lezeth: 0:00

Hey everyone, it's Carmen Lezeth and welcome to All About the Joy. This is Carmen Talk. Let me say this up front we're going to stay divided as a country if we don't start getting honest about the cost of cutting people off. This isn't about defending public figures or giving passes to problematic behavior. It's about calling out the cultural impulse to cancel, erase and exile people, without pausing to ask whether someone might actually be trying to grow.

Carmen Lezeth: 0:44

The latest example Joey Swoll. Maybe you've seen him on your FYP page. He's a fitness guy, a self-appointed gym etiquette enforcer. He's an influencer and he's popped up enough on my For you page that I know who he is and I've always admired a lot of his work. He makes gyms safer, especially for people who quote-unquote shouldn't be in the gym. He makes it clear that everyone should be there. It's not really my jam, but I've always appreciated whenever I was able to watch his videos.

Carmen Lezeth: 1:22

And then this week he said something. He said a lot of things that made many people pause, me included. Joey used the word colored Instead of saying people of color. He said the word colored while discussing why he liked or admired Hulk Hogan, who had recently passed away. Now, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of problems with his video, but let's just stick with the word colored for a moment, because for me it was the ease, right, that unbothered familiarity. It was that that made me pause, because when something rolls out that easily out of your mouth, that smoothly, it's not something new, right, it's part of his everyday conversation, it's something that's baked into his vernacular. So he apologized pretty quickly, publicly, in his own voice. I thought he did a very good apology.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:20

And then he still got backlash for that and other things. And so the other day he said he's going to quit social media altogether. Now look, maybe that's the start of some real reflection. I have no idea. Or maybe it's a tactic to, you know, avoid deeper accountability, who knows? Here's the thing Joey is not the point of this conversation, he's just a mirror, because this pattern of messing up, calling out and then exiling everyone is everywhere, especially now as I'm seeing former Trump supporters begin to speak out saying I didn't know, I was misled, this isn't what I voted for.

Carmen Lezeth: 3:02

I see things differently now, right, and my first instinct, honestly, is skepticism. For sure, but if we believe people are capable of change, we have to do better than you're dead to me, right, and we're never talking to you again, and there's no way in hell we're ever going to let you part of the culture or part of the society, or part of the family. I'm not asking you to forget harm. I'm asking whether we're willing to stay in the room long enough to witness real transformation, because the way we respond to regret matters, the way we respond to apologies matters. If someone tells you they're sorry and your only response is to block shame and dismiss them, what kind of future are we building? The truth is, most of us have done something harmful, spoken out of ignorance, reacted in fear and we've been given grace Okay, not always by the Internet, but by someone that grace has shaped us. And we've been given grace Okay, not always by the internet, but by someone that grace has shaped us. It didn't excuse us, but it did keep us in the community long enough to learn something new. And look, don't get it twisted. Sometimes, cancel culture is necessary. I ain't even gonna lie about it. Target is a perfect example. Now, this is not a person. This is a perfect example. Now, this is not a person. This is a corporation.

Carmen Lezeth: 4:31

And after George Floyd's murder in 2020, right there in Minneapolis, where Target is headquartered. They stepped forward, they pledged racial equity, they rolled out DEI initiatives, they celebrated Black employees and spotlighted Black-owned businesses. For a moment, target became the corporate face of we hear you and people believed it. I believed it. But fast forward to 2025, and the silence is louder than any press release. The DEI programs dismantled, the partnerships paused or canceled. The language now is all about changing landscapes and streamlining priorities. The language now is all about changing landscapes and streamlining priorities. Translation is basically political pressure shifted and target folded to protect its bottom line. That's not accountability, that's opportunism. They used the death, the murder of a Black man to build trust, then abandoned that trust as soon as it became inconvenient. They played both sides for profit. And that kind of betrayal, that performative allyship, is why I will never step into a target anymore and I'm happy to watch them go through the pain of people not going into their stores, not because I'm boycotting them, but because they deserve what's happening to them right now. And look, they're a corporation. They'll be fine, they will. But I am done being played. I am done being played by companies and I am not spending my money where people are being inauthentic.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:04

But when canceling becomes I'm going to go back to my original soundbite here when canceling becomes our default, when it's our go-to reaction for every misstep, especially for individual people, it robs us of something deeper. It robs us of healing. Forgiveness isn't weakness. Forgiveness isn't about pretending the harm didn't happen. Forgiveness is about choosing discernment over erasure, boundaries over exile. Forgiveness says I see the damage and now I'm watching what you do next. And that's the bite.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:42

I want us to sit with right, not just when we forgive, but why we forgive and what happens when we don't allow people to have a moment where they made a mistake. If we want reconciliation, if we want a culture that makes room for real growth, we can't just burn every bridge and call it justice, every bridge and call it justice. So maybe the next time someone says I'm sorry, maybe we listen, maybe we evaluate, maybe we observe and maybe just maybe, we stay long enough in the room to see who they are becoming. The last thing I'll say is this Grace is what shows up when someone messes up and you choose compassion over punishment. It's the pause before judgment, the softness and strength, the ability to hold boundaries without the cruelty. Basically, it's the counterweight to cancellation. It's not about letting people off the hook at all, but it is about giving people the chance to grow, change and be better than we used to be. Thanks for stopping by. All About the Joy. Be better and stay beautiful folks, have a sweet day.