Blue Wave, Real Talk: Media Literacy, Coalition Politics, and the Cost of Power

In this episode of All About The Joy, Culture and Consequence: 

The lines wrapped around buildings, the speeches were unapologetic, and for a moment the air felt lighter. We dive into why this week’s blue wave hit so hard, not as a finish line but as proof that showing up still moves the needle. From New York’s historic win to California’s focused ballot, we celebrate the turnout while arguing for what comes next: sustained participation, smarter information diets, and a hard reset on political passivity.

We get frank about media literacy and how to build it. Instead of trusting brands, we talk about following journalists who bring receipts, checking quotes against transcripts, and separating interpretations from facts. That thinking shapes a deeper look at Democratic coalition politics: the tension between big-tent pragmatism and democratic socialist energy, why endorsements matter symbolically even if they don’t decide races, and how purity tests can stall progress. We don’t chase heroes; we ask for accountable policies and a coalition that can actually govern.

The conversation turns to age and power, and what it means for leaders to step aside while remaining influential as mentors and advisors. Then we take on the legacy of Dick Cheney, tracing a direct line from the unitary executive theory, the Iraq War, and torture to the democratic strain we’re living with now. Late-life repudiations don’t erase earlier harm, and we wrestle with forgiveness, boundaries, and the right to withhold absolution when public choices cost lives. Along the way, we call out corporate media’s selective silence and make a practical case for following credible reporters, tracking money, and refusing distraction.

If you care about turnout, truth, and the hard work of governing a plural country, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Then take one concrete step this week—register a voter, read beyond the headline, or have the hard conversation—and tell us what you did.

Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.

Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Blue Wave And Election Reactions
• 3:40 Voter Engagement And Civic Duty
• 10:20 Abuser Tactics And Political Backlash
• 15:30 Media Literacy And Critical Thinking
• 24:20 Democrats, DSA, And Big-Tent Tensions
• 35:20 Age, Power, And When Leaders Should Exit

Transcript

Carmen Lezeth: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy. This is Culture and Consequence with Carmen and Andrea. How are you feeling about yesterday?

Andrea: 0:08

Was it yesterday? It was Tuesday. I mean, it's been a good week, I think. I'm just saying.

Carmen Lezeth: 0:15

Um But for people who don't know, in case they're watching this at some other time, we well, there was a blue wave. It was the election on Tuesday across the nation.

Andrea: 0:27

Well, only in certain places, but yeah, I mean, look, you know, Democrats won in all kinds of places, Mississippi. You know, I mean, Dick Cheney died.

Carmen Lezeth: 0:39

Uh you're good. Well, let's just let's I mean, we're gonna talk about Dick Cheney because I think that was the email I sent you, right? In the text message or whatever. I was like, I know that Dick Cheney meant a lot to you.

Andrea: 0:52

Oh, he meant a lot of things to me. Yes, can't wait to get into them.

Carmen Lezeth: 0:58

And I, you know, before we honor what has happened on his passing, I wanted to finish up. Let me just say what I think about the blue wave. I just, I am so proud of New York on so many levels. It wasn't just that, um, and I'm gonna mess up his name until I learn it correctly, but Mom Donnie uh was elected mayor of uh New York. And, you know, I was on Facebook the other day, on that day or whatever, and I saw people and I I just blocked them immediately. So I I want to make this a public service announcement. Somebody wrote on Facebook, I can't believe after 25 years after 9-11, New York elected a Muslim. Like that is racist. So I don't understand. Like, I don't know how people don't understand the simplicity and the cruelty and the nastiness. You know, so I I'm like just blocking people now. I'm not even responding, but I'm just so happy for him and so happy for New York. And um, and I know it probably hurts you to love Gavin Newsom at this moment.

Andrea: 2:12

But he's done the right thing. He did the right thing.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:15

That's that's all you can muster.

Andrea: 2:18

Let's say that's all I can muster. That is all I can muster in this moment. Uh, he did the right thing and it worked, and so that's good.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:26

God, you really have no love for that man.

Andrea: 2:28

I do not. We'll see. We'll see what he does. Um, you know, but um we we won't go into Gavin today.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:35

Okay, we won't go into Gavin today. I'm just very proud of California as well. There was nobody on the ticket, it was just a proposition.

Andrea: 2:43

It was a single thing. Like, I was all I I didn't actually realize it was just one thing. I thought it, I was like, where's my my pamphlet? Like, what am I doing here? And I looked at my sample ballot and I was like, Oh.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:57

I know because there have been so many times where you and I will call each other and be like, Who is this judge? Like, because we'll do all this research and try to figure out, and it's a job to vote is a job, but it was only one thing, and I was like, Oh, okay, great.

Andrea: 3:11

There were lines. My husband went to go vote, yeah, you know, in our little local area, and there were lines of people. He's like a person, he does not like to do mail or drop off or whatever. It's like his thing, which is good for him, you know. Yeah, and he took a picture and he was like around the building.

Carmen Lezeth: 3:30

It was awesome. I mean, I think that's also what made me so happy and made me shed a tear a bit was that you know, that is what democracy is about. Like, you have to actually go and vote. And all these people, yeah, you actually have to participate. And I I I loathe so many people. We've said this before, I say it all the time now, but I am so sick and tired of people saying I don't do politics. Well, it's motherfucking doing you. I've said that so many times.

Andrea: 3:57

Did you see Mamdani's speech where he said politics has been doing you? I was like meeting. I was like, Oh my god, why do you watch the show?

Carmen Lezeth: 4:08

So funny. I just feel that more people need to be involved. And unfortunately, a lot of people are being involved by force. You know, that's unfortunate. Also, the Latino community who, you know, for what it's worth, a lot of Latino people had voted for that dumbass. And, you know, you made a mistake. You made a huge motherfucking mistake, but you came out in droves and voted blue, which I'm not gonna give you credit for because that's the other thing I want to say. We are at the beginning of this marathon from hell. We are not done yet. So it was a good night, Tuesday night.

Andrea: 4:48

Totally. We'll see what happens, girls.

Carmen Lezeth: 4:51

Right. We we're not done. Like you have to enjoy, enjoy, and then okay, the hour of enjoyment is over.

Andrea: 4:57

One hour, and now we're like back to well, and I mean, not to bring the room down, but like you saw Trump had a meltdown that night, and it was like more, more nastiness, more pain, and it's like it's a classic abuser tactic, right? Like, what's the most dangerous time to, you know, in an abusive relationship when you try to leave, when you try to break it off. And so he sees oh, everybody doesn't love me. Everything went against me this night. So, you know what I mean? Like bring on the pain, and and I think it will be more. I think it will be uh, you know, next year, the midterms are gonna be, you know, we are gonna have to be on the ball. People when you say like people need to get involved, like start getting involved now, right now. Start, you know, there are unsure everywhere across this country. There are already people doing community organizing, there, you know, like voter registrations, whatever it is, all you know, voters. Or just read a book or two.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:04

Like, like you're asking, like, I'm not even asking for people to go do anything. I just want people to read. I was listening to someone the other day. I I I don't want to be mean to people because I think in the trying, that's good. That's a good part of it too. But you gotta do more than just try. You gotta do more than just read the headlines, like actually read an article and then investigate that article and then make sure that you understand what it means, you know, like really start becoming a full-fledged citizen of the United States and understand things. An informed person, right?

Andrea: 6:41

Like, stop allowing people to feed you what you believe. Yeah, not to believe in you.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:48

No, let's just go listen to us though. No, but you should question us too.

Andrea: 6:54

I would never want you to just believe anything. I'm a total asshole. Like, definitely question me.

Carmen Lezeth: 7:01

For real, though, it's so true. But but I think that's what people get wrapped up in, you know. Like, once like there were a few people that when I listen to them, I'm like, okay, because I know and I've seen, and it's been years. Like, if they say something, I don't have to double triple check them. And yet I still do, because I'm sometimes so beside myself that that cannot be true. I have to just find another couple of sources.

Andrea: 7:26

I read something last night. Um, it was about Chuck Schumer, which whatever, we won't go down that road. But I read something about and I was like, and it was from somebody who I have a great amount of respect for as a journalist, as a writer, etc. And I was like, didn't he really say that? Um, and I looked and it was like, that was an interpretation of what exactly he said, and it is an interpretation one could make, but it's not what he actually meant. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like, again, this is someone whose opinion I trust, who I have read, who I follow, all of those kinds of things. You have to be, you have to use the critical thinking skills. That's what critical thinking is. You read something, you hear something, and you critique it in your head, and you decide, you think to yourself, is that really true? Maybe I should look into that a little bit more.

Carmen Lezeth: 8:23

Or, and here's the thing: their interpretation is a true interpretation. It doesn't mean that's what was meant by Chuck Schumer or whoever the person is. So it's always good to try to follow up and find the actual and decide for yourself.

Andrea: 8:39

Is that you know, is that do I feel like that's an accurate interpretation? What do I think he meant? You know, those like use your brain. Use your brain, use it.

Carmen Lezeth: 8:49

And also, people make mistakes, people. Like it's not even has to be so intentional, right? It's not like everyone in the media is trying to screw you over for some George Soros or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think that everyone is out. I just think we are at a point where we're starting to understand there's no such thing as objective journalism. There isn't. There never has been. Sorry, Walter Cronkite. There never has been, because everyone has an edge or an opinion. Like, if I choose to tell you something, that's me making a decision to tell you something from a point of view. Right. Or leave something out. Or leave something out. Exactly. So it's so much more layered and nuanced. And if we can become better people, like the the most wonderful thing that could happen after this stupid ass Trump administration would be that we become more engaged, smarter human beings, and understand our political process. But now I know that might be asking too much, but I'm just saying that could be one of the things that could happen by force, but we really need to be smarter as citizens of this country, as people who live here, you know. Um, but yeah, Tuesday night was finally like it's been so long.

Andrea: 10:12

It was it was like an inkling, I would say. The closest maybe like, for example, my kids who were teenagers could get to the feeling that we had in 2008.

Carmen Lezeth: 10:27

When Barack Obama was around.

Andrea: 10:29

Right, right. Like, you know, I was like, is that what is what is warming my cold, dark, clinical heart right now? Is that like the idea of the thing? Watching his speech, I was like, fuck yes, thank you. Thank you for being unapologetic. Thank you for supporting immigrants, trans people, working people. Like, thank you for being a person. And we know I do not do hero worship on politicians, right? Like, but like let's actually believe in something and stand behind it and be our authentic selves.

Carmen Lezeth: 11:12

Okay, I'm gonna now, so I'm gonna throw a little wrench in here. So, because I think so. People were talking about how Kamala Harris and Jeffries and Schumer did not back mom Donnie. I I have to be very careful how I say because I keep messing up, but that's right, like mom Donnie. Um, they didn't back him fully and completely. They were kind of doing that wishy-washy thing. Here's what I want to say. I actually don't believe in everything he believes in. I am not a democratic socialist. I'm not. I am I know. Andre is. Here's what I want to say that I think is actually really important is I don't have to believe in everything a politician does or says. We're human beings. This idea that you have to take the litmus test, and if you don't check every one of my boxes, you are not worthy of my vote. That is the other part of this that drives me insane. So people were all in the comments, like, yeah, dismiss all of these people who weren't back. And like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not how we do this. Because you also have to remember it's layered. If Schumer, and and I'm not making excuses for them, but I am justifying why. I know for a fact they wouldn't have full-throatedly, that's probably a bad way to say that, right? They wouldn't fully embrace him, is because the Democratic Party or this side of the world isn't completely on board and they would have lost a lot of those base people. Actually, I think what happened was so much better. New York, this, you know, New York did this thing, and now we're all like, hmm, what does democratic socialists mean? How is that different? You know what I mean? And take the elements of it that we want and need, which is being compassionate and loving and whatever, and being open-minded. And, you know, he's going to supposedly do all these things, which by the way, I don't think he can do them all. He's the mayor. So yeah, so let's bring it down a notch. But that's kind of the other part of this, too, is like, I don't want to say big tent because I'm so sick of that fucking idea, but I think we have to get to this place where we have to stop checking boxes to allow people to become their best selves in office.

Andrea: 13:24

They they can't the idea that you don't need to agree, or we don't need to have every single box checked. Um, I disagree though, with this idea that it was somehow better for them to not endorse Jeff Schumer never endorsed and didn't even wouldn't even say if you voted for him. Um and Jeffries came out like two days before the election or something. I think like two hours before. Yeah, I mean, and so my feeling about that. I mean, like, are there endorsements, do they matter? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but um you do have to support the people. It's literally our point, right? Like, he doesn't maybe check every box for you, Jeffries or Schumer or whatever. Um, but you do have to support the people who are on the democratic ticket if you are a Democratic.

Carmen Lezeth: 14:16

But I think that's what you're confusing. I do think they're supporting the Democratic ticket. I think they're not endorsing him so that they don't ruffle feathers for other people. Look at, I look at, I hate Bernie Sanders. Everyone knows I hate Bernie Sanders. I'm not a big fan of AOC. I'm not, because I'm not a democratic socialist. Now, I'm not saying that if Chuck Schumer jumped in and said, you know, I'm for Mom Donnie, I'd have been like, absolutely not. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that this idea that everyone has to agree and has to show and has to jump up and down, it doesn't have to happen that way. And let me just clarify what I meant by I think it was better it happened this way, because I think you missed, I misspoke. But I think it's better that New York elected a democratic socialist as opposed to everyone who keeps saying Bernie Sanders should have been president back in the day. Do you know what I mean? Like that was never going to happen because the idea of democratic socialism is such a hard thing for people to understand in the United States. So here in New York, we have a man, by the way, being a democratic socialist is not a bad thing, but people don't understand the word socialism and they don't understand the difference. Let me give you a quick definition so you understand. Democrats are like Clinton, um, uh Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and uh Kamala Harris are straight up Democrats. Democratic socialists are like AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Mom Dami. Like that's a good way. They're just very different. There's more of a socialist bend to it. I feel your energy. What's happening?

Andrea: 16:00

I just think it's absolute bullshit when you have someone that's that who is is that charismatic, is young, has captured the attention literally of people around the world. And the leadership of the party is like, I don't think so.

Carmen Lezeth: 16:15

No, I know, but because you believe in what he's saying, because you believe in everything, Andrea. That's why you wouldn't feel that way if it was Gavin Newsome. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Andrea: 16:26

You wouldn't feel that way if it was Gavin Newsome. Gavin Newsom is not that charismatic and exciting and has not captured okay.

Carmen Lezeth: 16:33

You know what's so funny? You're absolutely this is my you've just that's the point. Yes, he is. Not to you because you don't like him. You know what I mean? Like, yes, he is. Everyone loves him. That is my point. Is like there again, I I hear you, but I'm I'm going to disagree with you, which is you know, we can disagree, we can agree to disagree. But Gavin Newsom is the exact thing that you just said. And I'm saying for me and for other people, it's uh it there is a part of me, and I see the Bernie part and the AOC part, and that is not something I agree with. You know what I mean? Like I don't like them, you know. I will support them, I will vote for them.

Andrea: 17:14

That is my point.

Carmen Lezeth: 17:16

They voted for it, but no, that's my point. But I am not gonna sit here and promote Bernie Sanders and AOC. You are not a leader in the Democratic Party. But I understand why they're not doing it because there are people who do listen to them. That's why they're the leaders of the party. Okay. Okay, we go and go, you know what? This is this is our phone call. Okay, this is why I'd be like, bitch, enough. No, I'm just gonna like look it. So let's talk about Nancy Pelosi because she just decided to, at the age of 85, she is finally going to retire. And I can I tell you I'm not agreeing break today. I haven't looked at the news. Yeah, Nancy Pelosi announced today that she's going to retire and not run for office at the age of motherfucking 85. I mean, they didn't say motherfucking 85, but she's been in office since 1987. Look at wow, you can already tell how I feel about it, but I'm like, no, no, I want her. I I think she should have retired 20 years ago.

Andrea: 18:16

How do you feel about it? I don't just look, I mean, um I think she got us through some rough times, right? I mean, she was when we say 20 years ago, that would erase the Obama years. I think it was we can thank her for ACA, um, you know, getting that passed. Uh, but yeah, like honestly, beyond like 70, what are you doing? Go find some other shit to do. Why do you need to be there?

Carmen Lezeth: 18:45

This podcast is going to be known for being ageist. That's just like we are the worst people in the world when it comes to the city. Like, I've already gotten a couple emails.

Andrea: 18:54

We talked about this before though, and it's like these are people who are making decisions for the country, and they have no under no real understanding of the things that are important to people who are 20, 30, 40 years younger than them. They are making decisions that they will never have to live with the res the consequences of.

Carmen Lezeth: 19:22

And and here's the thing, I'm I'm not against them contributing and I'm not against them being a part of being like the, I don't know what the word would be, like uh um elder statesman or elder stateswoman or whatever. But I don't want you in office after I just think like there needs to be, I don't know if term limits would be it or if it would be an age thing. I I go back to this idea that we demonize getting older. So everyone holds on because they don't want to retire, they don't want to be nothing, and that's a cultural thing in the United States where we demonize getting older. Um, and and and we like throw people away the minute they turn 65. That's not what we're saying. I just want to clear. I did get a couple of emails on this. Not at all.

Andrea: 20:10

That's not a business partner is 83 years old. Like there is a lot of wisdom and and you know, but your business partner lets you run the business. Exactly.

Carmen Lezeth: 20:22

Step back and elder statesman. That's what I'm saying. Like you become somebody else, you know what I mean? You become a different entity that is more revered, more respected. I lost a lot of respect for Nancy Pelosi. Ironically, you're gonna jump down my throat now. How she treated AOC and the whole group that walked in the door, you know what I mean? Like, because to me, I was like, no, this is the group, this is the young up-and-coming group, and like let them, let them take over. But that's about a weird sense of power, too. You know, that's a weird sense of power.

Andrea: 20:59

It's control. I think, I think definitely when they're sort of in the upper echelons of power in in any of these um institutions, or businesses for that matter, you start to get, they start to get a sense of like, you know, they can't do it without me. You know, like I'm too important in this process, and I just, you know, I can't let go, they're not ready for it yet.

Carmen Lezeth: 21:24

You know, I think if we could change also the culture about, like, I don't know, I'd love to be revered. I'd like to retire and people be like, Carmen, can we call you?

Andrea: 21:34

I mean, some of these people, if they let it go earlier, they would be more revered than if they hold on for this long, and literally making enemies along the way, and people who are like, you can't even fucking stand up. I don't respect you anymore. Yeah, Diane Beinstein is a great example.

Carmen Lezeth: 21:50

Oh my god. I mean, I right, we loved her, and then I'm like, what is going on in the past like 15 years? It was just like so embarrassing. I voted, I loved Diane Feinstein.

Andrea: 22:01

First of all, she looked like Diane Beinstein and we can and I voted for her every single time she was on my ballot. And I'll tell you that last vote I regretted like a mofo because she was not there. She was not there. We cannot have the stakes, they are too high at this point on all fronts, even without Trump. No, of course, of course. In in where we are in our country right now to have people who can't make coherent decisions, can't even be able to do that.

Carmen Lezeth: 22:35

If you really love your country and it really is about the people and it really is about your service, you wouldn't stay for that long. But it actually takes somebody to tell people the truth, right? Like this is part of the problem. And I always think about this with Arlene. I know you worked with Arlene at one point too, and I told you the story. Uh, it was this weird thing where she thought it was okay to keep driving. And she was like in her 80s, and her family, everybody was, and this is somebody who could afford to take an Uber, right? Like it's not an Uber. She had a chauffeur. But it was, it's one of those stories where I went in and I just screamed at her and I made the one comment, and I said, I don't care if you drove and got into an accident and killed yourself, but you would never be able to live with yourself if you killed someone else. And I got the keys that day. And it's like, and and you know, I'm not trying to make this like a big deal, but it's like at some point you have to put that in front of people. And look at I admit right now that as I get older and older, I can't wait to retire. I would retire now if I could, right?

Andrea: 23:45

Right.

Carmen Lezeth: 23:46

Why do you want to keep working? I'm fucking ready, man. I just ain't got the money. Maybe, maybe they didn't have the money.

Andrea: 23:52

Yeah, right.

Carmen Lezeth: 23:53

Maybe. Maybe, maybe that's what PayPal. Right. But um, but I just feel like there they need, you know, like I'm like all the tributes are starting, whatever, and I'm like, yeah, you know what though? I'm angry. And I'll I'll never forget the way in which she treated. It's so funny because I I'm not a big fan of AOC and stuff, but I will never forget that. That little group, remember the group of um young people who walked in. Yeah, I can't remember what they're I can't remember all their names, right? Right, right, right. I just remember being like, no, this is not the way it works. I'm sorry, I said it's shitty, and it's almost like kind of mean girlish, right?

Andrea: 24:29

Like, not to bring it back to, but it's like, it's not your turn, girl, you know.

Carmen Lezeth: 24:34

And I'll decide when it's your turn. Yeah, and I'm more important and better than you. And it's like, yeah, actually, no, you know what I mean? Like, you could be someone who teaches them stuff. Why why can't you just mentor, right? Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about Dick Cheney because I actually, I mean, I was kidding with you, but we both have no respect for Dick Cheney. And I know I'll just so he died on Monday, um November 3rd. Was it Tuesday? It was Monday, November 3rd at 84. I think we all heard about it on Tuesday, but he actually died on November 3rd. Um, and one of the quotes that I think changed everything. I mean, I I think the George W. Bush administration, again, we've talked about this before, set up where we're at right now on so many levels. But one of the quotes he wrote, uh, one of the quotes he said, Dick Cheney, was simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. And he said that in um 2002, justifying the Iraq war, and later was discredited when no WMDs, weapons of mass uh destruction were found. His connection to Halliburton, which is this whole kind of he was the CEO of this company that was just making money. It starts this kind of taking money while you're in office bullshittery. Then the whole thing about never talking about gay people, never saying a word, never he never uttered a single word, even though the Republican Party was so against LGBTQ, was so against uh marriage or whatever. And then during the Kerr debate in 2004, that's when it came out that his daughter Mary Cheney was gay. And it there was a cowardness, being a coward during that time period when you could have advocated for gay marriage or advocated for the rights of people in the LGBTQ community, and you didn't. And then the last I'm gonna let you speak. And then the last thing I'm gonna say that I thought was weird, and I'm not a parent, but I'm thinking I'm not a parent, but I would think this is a cheesy thing. A lot of people were saying was, oh, but he raised his daughter, Liz Cheney, right? You know, because she came out and was voting for Kamala and whatever, and I don't know, found her Jesus moment. I have no idea. But I was like, that can't be, you you can't be a parent who does bad things and then rely on your daughter to like fix your legacy. I have no idea, but yeah, go ahead.

Andrea: 27:09

I'm sorry. Oh, Dick Cheney was an evil motherfucker. Um, and that is just an objective truth. He was in the you know uh leadership of every Republican administration from before I was born, which was a long ringing time ago, um, until 2008, 2009, technically. Um so we're talking Nixon, yeah. Uh he was I think he was uh Ford's chief of staff, you know, so probably had a hand in the pardon of Nixon. Uh Reagan, which you know, I could spend 17 hours talking about what an evil motherfucker he was, and uh HW Bush, he was the Secretary of Defense, right? And then uh, you know, the the wonderful W years uh were with Rumsfeld, with Rumsfeld, who was his mentor, also an evil motherfucker, yeah, um, who I'm glad is dead. And like there is no possible way to absolve to wipe off the stain of the misery and death that this person caused around the world and here in the United States.

Carmen Lezeth: 28:41

Um I don't even I can't even believe anyone would begin to praise or honor this this type of well they are because they're you know I know because later in his life and like and and he voted for Kamala Harris and he talked about that and he I know it's but I do we believe in forgiveness?

Andrea: 29:01

Do we believe in Andrea clearly does not, but I just because we voted one time for one person does not wipe off all of the evil that you did throughout your life.

Carmen Lezeth: 29:16

I think what's more important for me is the setup of how we're at today, and you know, can I forgive? Sure, whatever. I don't forget, you know what I mean? Like, and I don't absolve people of creating a space where evil continues, you know what I mean? If there was a way in which you stopped it, you know, again, it goes back to this thing about courage. Like if you know that your child is gay and people are demonizing gay people and you have power and you decide not to say a word or even just kind of have it be assumed that you don't like gay people, I it's hard for me to. Have any kind of compassion or thought process that you are a decent human being. I don't like cowards.

Andrea: 30:08

He wasn't a decent human being. You know? And yeah, he didn't like Trump. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I alright. I mean, people are complex, right? Do multiple things can be true at the same time. And you know, just because we agree that Trump is, you know, a horrible evil stain on this country, um, doesn't mean that we wipe away all of the bad that he did, which was a very significant lot of bad.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:44

That again, I'm going to say, especially if you go back, not you, but if people go back and just look at the history of how it opens this door, these avenues that we're in today, widens them. And um, you know, but this is also thinking about people that might be watching that are still Trump supporters, they're not going to make that connection, you know, because if you're still supporting Trump in this way today, you're probably not watching our show. So you're not watching the show.

Andrea: 31:12

Yeah, he was a proponent of this idea of the unitary executive, right? Which is the executive, there's the three branches of power, and executive is up here at the top, right?

Carmen Lezeth: 31:22

Yes, he pushed for radical expansion of presidential authority, which is what does that sound like?

Andrea: 31:30

You can do things like go to war without Congress's approval. You can do things like create enhanced interrogation techniques, which is torture. You know what I mean? You can do things like open a guantanamo and have people put there really for life with no due process. I mean, there's all kinds, and that's just connections, right?

Carmen Lezeth: 31:55

Right? There are connections all over the place. This is what's happening now and what he did.

Andrea: 31:59

Exactly. It's a direct thread, a line that you can draw that's like Dick Chaney had his hands in this, and here's Trump. And it's like, oh, I don't like the way you're doing that. I only liked it when I was doing that. So I'm gonna vote for this lady. I don't believe in anything she actually proposes, I don't believe in any of her policies. And the minute I can, I will get a Republican there who believes in exactly the same things I do, but just isn't Trump.

Carmen Lezeth: 32:26

Right. Yeah, fuck that. It's just an interesting thing. And so I I mean I I really did want to talk about it a little bit because I thought it was um fascinating. And I'm always fascinated by how we revise, right? It's always a people in power that revise the actual truth. And here's something that I know a lot of people get upset about. I can hate whoever I want to hate.

Andrea: 32:48

You know what I mean?

Carmen Lezeth: 32:49

Like, I can despise whoever I want to despise. It's not it's not hurting my soul, it's not making my life cheaper, it's not, it's not doing anything to me. I just think that we've gotten into this thing where, like, oh no, you cannot hate anybody. Yet your behavior is positive for you. That is, you know what it's not eating at my soul. It's not eating at my soul. Like, I love the isms that we've grown up and we've just accepted. That's one of them, right? That people are like, um, you know, you you have to forgive for your no, no, I I really don't have to forgive anybody. Um, but it makes you feel better. I forgive, you know what I mean?

Andrea: 33:27

Like, but I don't forget. Right. Like I've I have people in my actual life who I'm like, yeah, I don't need to forgive them, but I can like put them off to the side and like live my life happy and joyous and whatever, you know.

Carmen Lezeth: 33:41

No, but enjoy forgiveness is for you, it's not for them.

Andrea: 33:45

It's actually not fine.

Carmen Lezeth: 33:48

Yeah, that's part of my book that I'm working on, too, is all these isms that we've grown up to believe in and yet they don't really mean anything. Like, let go and let God the entire AA community is gonna come and beat the crap out of me. But like that's one of my favorite because what what does that mean? Seriously, what does it mean? Release yourself from responsibility. Like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna Yeah, don't be disappointed, but I'm just saying, but but it's the isms, right? It's all the isms, you know, like you have to forgive for yourself. Yeah, no, I I'm good. I'm good, not forgiving them. I'm good. There's so many of those. Um, I said one the other day, I'm sorry.

Andrea: 34:29

I have standards, damn it.

Carmen Lezeth: 34:32

I think it's I like that actually. I never thought about it. It is standards, isn't it?

Andrea: 34:38

I have people that I allow into my life, whether that's actual people that I know or like Barack Obama. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like people would I allow into my life, and I have a I have boundaries, right? I have standards. Like, no, you you do not get to be a part of my world.

Carmen Lezeth: 35:01

Well, I think it's kind of like you know, like like the whole Charlie Kirk thing that you know, he was murdered or whatever. I think there's one thing to have compassion for his child or whatever, you know what I mean? Uh clearly I don't know what's happening with his wife and JD Vance, but I don't know what that's about. Oh no, there's something weird happening there, but but you know, he he was murdered by someone that is weird and odd and horrible and whatever. But I'm not gonna sit here and be like, oh, but now I'm thinking he's a great guy or whatever. He was a horrible person, and he did he did a lot of damage to people, and it's kind of that same thing. Like I can have more than one feeling about a situation because I'm a complex human being that can deal with nuance and understand the layers of how the world works, you know? Right. So it's that kind of thing too. It's like I I think when people say let go and let God, first of all, not everyone believes in God, so let whatever it is. When you do that, you are absolving yourself of kind of responsibility. I never thought about it that way, but I'm gonna use that. That's a good one, you know?

Andrea: 36:09

Well, and I think it's this you know, I'm not to go back to this, but it's like people want things to be black and white. It's like this or this, yes or no. And that is not the human experience, particularly if you are a thoughtful, educated, critical thinking person, right? You can have a person or a topic or whatever where you have competing ideas about it. Like, I think this is good, but this part of it I don't really agree with. But this is a, you know, I need to find out more about this, whatever it is, you can have multiple thoughts and feelings about multiple different things and people. Yeah, but if you are not a person who is comfortable with that, then it's like I either like this or I don't.

Carmen Lezeth: 37:01

Yeah, you know, and and and that's kind of part of the problem, too, is that we're just I always say nuanced, you know, but it's also how our politics has been set up. How I mean it's dumbed down. I mean, that's really what it is. It's dumbed down, but it's also like we're so accepting, like there's this meme that's been going around, and I'm not gonna do it correctly, but this idea like you're mad at the world at the person getting SNAP benefits or the person making $8 an hour, but you're not mad at, you know, Jeff Bezos or any of the big time people who don't pay taxes, who get tax benefits and credits, and you you're they've done such a good job of convincing us that the problem is all the brown and black people who are running around, uh, you know, landscaping. And they just arrested ICE just arrested a preschool teacher yesterday. Yeah. Uh in front of the kids. At the school, in front of the kids. At the school, in front of the kids, right? And like they've convinced you that those are the people that are the problem as to why your life isn't the way that it could be. Like, you don't understand nuance at all. Like, you don't even understand what they're doing because you're not even seeing so easily how rich people are just stomping and laughing at us. Like, just that's why that's why Tuesday's vote was incredible. Yeah, that's why it was amazing.

Andrea: 38:27

All of the money spent. Oh, that was awesome. It's like just light your millions on fire.

Carmen Lezeth: 38:35

You know, yeah. But here's the here's we'll just kind of wind this down a bit. But the White House East Wing, like, have you noticed that's not in the news anymore, right? The destruction. Because they have gone out of their way to make sure that all the media doesn't keep talking about it because they understand that the public is not okay with it. Okay, we don't like it. We don't like it, so it's out of you know what else is not in the news anymore? Epstein files. This is corporate America, all the bigwigs, the people that are financing the destruction of the East Wing or the building of the ballroom, however you choose to look at it, are corporate America. Corporate America is funding all of that. And then they're turning around and laughing at us because they're gonna be sitting at that dinner table. And then we're going to have to pay as taxpayers anything that isn't covered by it and all the maintenance for it afterwards. Our tax dollars for a ballroom we didn't need.

Andrea: 39:33

Right.

Carmen Lezeth: 39:33

And again, where are the Epstein files?

Andrea: 39:35

I'm just wondering. Well, and the media, which is now corporate America. Corporate America, completely. Any type of real national media is is is not you know serving the interest of the public at this point.

Carmen Lezeth: 39:48

No, and I keep telling people this all the time. Stop following networks and papers or whatever. Find those journalists that are doing good work, like Jacob Soberoff. Is that how you say his last name? Soberoff. It's such an interesting last name, right? Sober off. I've never heard of it, but I love him. He's so handsome too. Love him, but like he's a great journalist. And the reason he's an investigative journalist, he's just really good and he's just so smart. It's like I follow him. I want to know what he's doing and what he's saying. And the reason why I like him so much is because he also comes with receipts all the time. He has receipts, all the time, you know. As a journalist, yeah. Which is you know what it just dawned on me? I can't believe I'm saying that because that's what journalists usually do. Well, yes, they do. Yeah, they do. All right, cool. Well, look at um, that was an interesting conversation, and it's getting more and more like our actual phone conversations. And like you don't seem to understand that you are wrong. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like I love you, but you're always wrong, and I'm always right. That's what it is.

Andrea: 40:58

Yeah, we'll see.

Carmen Lezeth: 41:01

Um, all right, everyone. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us, and we'll see you again next week. And remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy. Bye, everyone. Thanks for stopping by. All about the joy. Be better and stay beautiful, folks. Have a sweet day.