All About The Joy
All About The Joy is a weekly hang-out with friends in the neighborhood! We share insight, advice, funny-isms and we choose to always try and find the positive, the silver lining, the "light" in all of it. AATJ comes from the simple concept that at the end of the day we all want to have more JOY than not. So, this is a cool place to unwind, have a laugh and share some time with friends!
All About The Joy
Directing Dignity: Joel Lava on AI, Leadership, and the Politics of Conviction
Ever wonder why some leaders pull us toward our better selves while others license the worst in us? I sit down with director and activist Joel Lava for a candid, funny, and sometimes fiery conversation that moves from election reactions to what conviction really looks like under pressure. We unpack the Mamdani win in New York, the trap of demanding perfect candidates, and how media platforms reward hysteria over nuance. Joel doesn’t hold back - he names the permission structure for open racism and still argues for leadership that inspires dignity instead of mob energy.
Then we tackle a shift shaking the creative world: AI’s impact on filmmaking. Joel, a DGA Director, predicts a brutal reset for Hollywood as text-to-video tools generate studio-grade scenes in seconds. He mourns the loss of tactile, collaborative production while recognizing the upside for audiences and emerging creators. We explore what survives - taste, story judgment, leadership of tiny teams - and how artists can future-proof by building distinct voices, owning their audience, and learning to direct systems as much as people.
Along the way, we time-travel through Austin, Texas before it was a brand, swap motion graphics war stories, and talk protest design that actually lands. Joel shares a childhood moment he’d rewrite with adult boundaries, a burrito-fueled recovery strategy, and the craft sequence he studies - shot by shot from The Martian. My own take: I’m making this show without a rigid plan because the work teaches and fuels me - editing, interviewing, lighting, and the patience to listen. The metrics are human: emails that say a mind changed, comments that push back, and a community that shows up even when it stings.
If you care about politics, culture, or the future of creative work, you’ll find perspective here - and maybe a nudge to claim your own agency. If this conversation resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review with your bold prediction for where AI and leadership take us next.
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy. This is our private lounge. And today we're talking to one of my good friends, Joel Lava. He has been on the show quite a few times in the past couple years. But I thought we would just have a little conversation with him so you could get to know him better. And uh maybe he inspired you a bit. I learned a lot about him today, which was weird because he's been a good friend for quite a long time. Enjoy. No, it's okay. You can do whatever you want, but you're such a dork guy. You were making fun of my background. Is that what you're doing?
Joel Lava:I I was not making fun of it. I'm merely saying now that you're becoming a paragon of the podcasting industry, um, it seems like you could have a background befitting of your greatness. Whereas I'm not I'm not that.
Carmen Lezeth:Of my greatness. Okay. I like how you fix that up. So okay. How are you feeling about last night, politics-wise?
Joel Lava:Just like, you know, we went we went Clinton, W, Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump. It's just like this cycle of just like is just it's kind of expected at this point. We we're a country we're a sick, mentally ill country of ignorant assholes.
Carmen Lezeth:I love that you just said that. I was really proud of New York, though. I was so glad that he won Mandami. How do you say his name? Mandani.
Joel Lava:I follow black Twitter basically, and man, of course you do. So much black Twitter is like anti-Mandani, and it's just like, I'm just like, Jesus, man.
Carmen Lezeth:Like the Can I just tell you that you shouldn't even be on Twitter? But okay. Like I left Twitter.
Joel Lava:I call it Black Twitter, but it's blue sky.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, I don't use black sky.
Joel Lava:It's just the amount of hand-reading over this guy, primarily over what he has said about Israel and any direction. I'm like, is he running for Secretary of State? Like, this dude's running for New York City mayor, and then just the hysteria over wanting to do a pilot program of a couple free grocery stores. Like, he's not, and you know it's all bogus when half the time they're saying this guy is gonna destroy the great city of New York, and the other half are time the same people are saying this guy has no experience, he's in over his head and he's gonna be overwhelmed. It's like, well, which is it? Is he so I don't know, just the hysteria over this dude is just like oh, I was glad to see it.
Carmen Lezeth:I I got rid of a whole bunch of Facebook people that I saw last night saying things like, like, you probably know one of these people. Um, I don't know who he is. Something I don't know who he is.
Joel Lava:I know the name.
Carmen Lezeth:He wrote something like, I can't believe after 25 years of 9-11 New York elected a Muslim. And I was like, and you're blocked. I was like, I'm out. Like, what is wrong with like how do you not know racism? Like, what? Like, oh my god, yeah. He's the son of a very famous woman filmmaker whose name escapes me at the moment.
Joel Lava:Yeah, she didn't, uh namesake, right?
Carmen Lezeth:She did but this she did like these three movies, but that's what I'm saying. Like, I it's just weird. I don't know. Like, what is right?
Joel Lava:Well, that's because we're a mentally ill country and there's become a new permission structure to be racist. And I think to a certain degree, it's nice when people can be real and aren't hiding behind a facade, but leadership can take people as mob mentality to do good or bad, and we've gone past the line of just lifting a bit of the veil where people can be more honest to taking people into a place of hate and hysterical mob mentality, hate. And what's we've gone way past the facade line of honesty, and people are just like a good leader inspires our better, better angels, and that is not what leadership is doing now, and people are being stirred up, just like in I'm not saying to the extreme of Nazi Germany, but those same Germans who got swept up into this like kill the impure people, literally 20 years later, are the most progressive country, you know.
Carmen Lezeth:Like people are Germany is for sure.
Joel Lava:I'm an anthropologist, like people at the base level are all the same, um, despite our ethnicity and culture, we're all driven by the same bond of humanity, and that can be taken by we all humanity looks to a leader. Most humanity wants to follow. And a a leader can take us into a place of great goodness or it can take us to a bad place. And anyway.
Carmen Lezeth:Who who would be somebody that you would say is a good leader in like the past 30 years that you would say did a good job of leading anywhere in the world?
Joel Lava:Well, you mean in any sector or in politics?
Carmen Lezeth:Just as an example. Yeah, as an example of what you just said, because I think that was kind of profound.
Joel Lava:Um, I think the easy answer is Obama. I don't think I think Biden was a better, got more done in two years than Obama did in eight. But Obama definitely appealed to our better angels. I mean, Obama is the perfect example of there's so many think tanks and pundits and hired consultants about what a Democrat needs to say. And part of my whole spiel, you know, I make all my videos is it really doesn't matter what they say. It's that whatever they say, they believe it, they stand on their courage or their convictions. So uh the Democratic Party could easily be led by a conservative moderate or by a progressive liberal. Either is totally possible if that person is charismatic, strong, and doesn't back down and throws counterpunches. Because Democrats are good at throwing a single punch, and then when they get punched back, they're like, oh, it hurts when I get in a fight.
Carmen Lezeth:I know you get really annoyed at at politicians who don't fight back. So are you loving Gavin Newsom or do you think he's gonna be able to do that?
Joel Lava:Gavin Newsom's interesting because man, it's like I've he's got that smarmy, just physically, he's smarmy.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah.
Joel Lava:Um, I have a friend from college.
Carmen Lezeth:Wait, wait, wait, you say smarmy, and most women are like, yum, look at that.
Joel Lava:No, like that slick, greasy, like snake oil salesman kind of. That's just physically his traits. And I have a friend from college who kind of came off that way, and it was I like as someone with like a monotone voice, etc. Like, my friend in college was just that was just his his way. Like, physically, that's how he sounded. And when you got to know him, you knew he was like this genuine, really. So I I think Newsom, man, he's just got you're running the fourth largest economy in the world. Peep you're just gonna be so much that people pick at you. Like, people, a lot of liberals go at him because of his stance on trans issues isn't progressive enough. And then, of course, there's the homeless problem, and then our education's not the best. Um, but then there's so much really good stuff in California. But um, as far as like a chance to run for president, I don't know, man. The whole just the homelessness thing and crime.
Carmen Lezeth:Well, look at this is where I kind of argue with people about Gavin Newsom. It's the same thing they did with Barack Obama, is this kind of idea that everybody's perfect and can fix everything in one moment. The homeless problem is not completely Gavin Newsom's fault. He inherited it. I'm saying it's like everything is being, you know, like having what what I hate about the Democratic Party, and you know I left the Democratic Party, is this idea that everybody has to be perfect. Everybody has to be perfect, and they have to, you know, every box has to be checked. And that's why I'm so proud of what happened in New York. You know, I don't agree with 95% of probably what um the newly elected mayor agrees with. I really don't. But I I was for him 100%. And if I lived and was a resident of New York, I would have voted for him because that's what we need. Young people, smart people. They may not do it, like it may not check every box I believe in, but I know that it like what you said earlier. You know, he has this conviction, he believes it.
Joel Lava:And I that's why I think that kind of is the reason I'm most excited for Mandani, too, is because he doesn't check every box.
Carmen Lezeth:Right.
Joel Lava:He literally is charismatic, he stands on the current of his convictions, he doesn't, he doesn't back down and equivocate and capitulate. He's like, this is where I'm at. And not only am I saying, he doesn't even say this is where I'm at, take it or leave it, he's like, this is where I'm at, and I love where I'm at because I think this is the best way, and I'm passionately excited about what I believe. Not like, well, but like Muslim, I'm not blaming him for the homelessness, but I'm saying on a national race, he would get tarred with so many negative traits, whereas Obama was a blank slate, for better or for worse.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh my God. You know, I say this with love. You guys really, and I say you guys, uh, I I am shook at how much you guys revise what you remember of Barack Obama running that race. I remember it like it was yesterday. I do too. It was not a blank slate. Are you out of your mind? Oh my God.
Joel Lava:What do you mean he was? He had no legislative accomplishments.
Carmen Lezeth:But it that that's not what I thought you meant by blank slate. He wasn't, it wasn't a okay. I thought you meant like there was no issues whatsoever with him. Oh my god, they were going after him every five seconds.
Joel Lava:No, no, yeah. No, he was a he was a black terrorist with a Muslim, right?
Carmen Lezeth:And he was like, No, that's what I told my kids.
Joel Lava:I tell my kids if you want to understand how bad 2008 was as a country, we were willing to, instead of electing a white war hero, we're willing to elect a black Muslim terrorist. That's how he's not.
Carmen Lezeth:For the people who are watching this, he is not.
Joel Lava:That was the fear.
Carmen Lezeth:That was the fear of the well, that's what that's what they put on him. That's what the Republican, the conservative legislatively. Okay, got it. I'm so sorry. I apologize. Um, I I actually love this conversation, even though I didn't really want to talk about politics with you, but you grew up in Texas. Um, sorry about that. Uh do you do you miss Texas? Do you how do you feel about your state in comparison to California?
Joel Lava:Well, it's funny, I didn't make a video on this too. Um I didn't see it. I miss Texas uh some metaphorically and literally. Um I grew up in a completely different Texas. I grew up in a Texas with Democratic governors and Democratic senators and Democratic House of Representatives. Barbara Jordan was the first black uh representative. Um and I grew up in Austin, which was, you know, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:So the coolest place in Texas.
Joel Lava:Yeah, it's where you know I grew up in the Richard Link later slacker Austin. And I grew up in the Austin that hadn't had its coolness commodified yet, like the South by Southwest and the music scene and the film scene and the hipster scene. That was all just what it was. And as soon as I go, I went off to college and I came back and we land at the airport, and it's like keep Austin weird, and like all this like official campaigns of it was like it had been taken away. And now I go back to Austin and there's a little smog and there's traffic, and there's places I used to drive by that were like forests are now just you know strip malls, and it's just not the same city anymore. And obviously, tragically, just healthcare, education, politics, you know, is just it's insane. It's just it's like freaking it's literally the closest thing to Afghanistan. I don't know, man. It's like Wait, what?
Carmen Lezeth:Why are you exaggerating like that?
Joel Lava:Like their adherence to like the abortion and their their bounty laws about finding someone who getting people to report on other people driving over state lines to get an abortion, like just the most crazy extreme stuff. And I didn't know that.
Carmen Lezeth:Are you for real?
Joel Lava:Yeah, that was the bounty law. That was like under when Biden was president.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh my god.
Joel Lava:So yeah, uh, Texas was amazing, and I grew up in a Texas is truly the independent spirit. It's the only state in the country that was its own country uh in 1836. You take, you know, we take seventh grade uh Texas history. Um, that's where the six flags comes from, the theme park, because Texas has lived under six flags. Uh I I can name them for you if you want, but um it's that independent streak also, even when it came to like the Confederacy, uh this is where I was ignorant as a kid. Like I really thought it was states' rights when I was a kid, because in Texas, Texas is all about like there were secession movements when I was a kid, they never went anywhere. But Texas literally is heritage, is we were our own republic. We don't need the rest of this fucking country, and there's like this badass, cool cowboy thing that goes along with it. And there are people who are daughters of the Confederacy when I was a kid, and I just thought that was the same as daughters of the revolution, but I now see it differently. But just growing up there, there's like this cool independent, like fuck you, we don't need anyone else's spirit, and it was democratic. So it was a great place to grow up, um, but not so great. My daughter doesn't ever want to set foot there.
Carmen Lezeth:I agree with your daughter. I I've been there like, I don't know, maybe 10 times, and I I have no interest in my friends who live there.
Joel Lava:Texas and Florida to me are like I sadly my friends I grew up with there are you know not wanting to be there. And what's also interesting is growing up in Austin, as like a high schooler, I was really not involved, but very aware of like local politics, like mayoral level city council politics and a little state, but not a lot of national. And it's really interesting because that's actually cool. Yeah, I was the state capital and this Austin City, and my buddy from high school is now the county judge, which is basically more powerful than the mayor. But now that I'm an adult and I live in California, I couldn't tell you anything about Burbank or LA politics, and I put know very little about California, and I'm like all about national politics, but that's also a reflection of the times we live in where it's I was just gonna say that isn't uh, but you do know who represents you in Congress, though, right? I do. I'm thinking of running against her.
Carmen Lezeth:Are you really? Are you gonna get into politics?
Joel Lava:I've just been playing with it because I'm so upset. Joel! No, I'm a single-issue guy, though, because she's actually it's Laura Friedman. She's actually by all accounts good, but she's part of just the old 20th century style technocrat who isn't like I want, I'm just my one of my things that gets me really angry right now is and I have a letter, I don't have it around, but I wrote her a letter saying every day uh our president commits multiple impeachable offenses, and all you leaders do is report on it. Like all these speeches by our democratic leaders saying he is breaking the constitution and he's criminally, he's taking bribes, and they say all this, and then they I'm like, cool. I didn't elect you to be a reporter. I I have reporters who tell me this. Like, what are you doing? And that the only way to stop our president is through impeachment. And I know Congress can't do it because of the blah blah blah, but if you're not even calling for it, we don't have any power. That's what you've got to call for it. You need to be filing articles of impeachment every day, or else what's what are you doing? That's like, and so it that drives me nuts. So I want to run, if only just to highlight that thing.
Carmen Lezeth:But I can't believe you would want to run. I find that well, I don't.
Joel Lava:I've never have, but I'm very angry. As you know, I'm very politically active and I'm out in the streets every week.
Carmen Lezeth:And so I'm very activated, and I've just but you've always been very activated in politics. You supported Joe Biden's run.
Joel Lava:I've been making political videos since the late 90s.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, you've always been. How does that it's so funny because you're part of Hollywood, right? You're a director and well, no, no, but but you are. You work in the industry, and so many more people are afraid of ever showing their personal side. I mean, does it ever conflict with you getting a job at all?
Joel Lava:Or I mean, I my career is basically non-existent, so you could argue it hasn't helped.
Carmen Lezeth:Do you think it's because of that or because of AI?
Joel Lava:Oh, I I think it's because of a variety of reasons. Really? I mean, I've been I'm just telling you what I was told. Don't freak out on me.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm not gonna freak out.
Joel Lava:I was told if with my real, you know, my portfolio of work, of commercials and music videos and promos, that if I was a 30-year-old black woman, I would be a millionaire. But because I'm a middle-aged white guy, I will not get hired.
Carmen Lezeth:Why do you think I would yell at you about that?
Joel Lava:Because it's a racial thing and that's what's happening. I'm saying that's one aspect. I got the industry is dying. Like, as I've been predicting Hollywood changing. Dying. Like I've been pr since 2023, I've been predicting in 2027 pretty much no Hollywood will exist. Except for like autour specific things. Like AI is gonna completely wipe out Hollywood.
Carmen Lezeth:But you love AI, you're one of the first people I saw using AI.
Joel Lava:I I uh Or now you don't? I have cultivated a perception that I'm into AI.
Carmen Lezeth:I love how you just said that. What does that mean?
Joel Lava:Well, I like being on set with actors and art directors and set decorators and all that.
Carmen Lezeth:I uh but you're learning AI so that like I mean, you were using AI for a while. Am I crazy?
Joel Lava:Well, I'm using AI, but it's like there's just no thrill in just like writing some text prompts and then waiting. Like, and anyone can do it. Like my skills and what I have in here are pretty much no longer necessary. And that was very, very depressing. That happened earlier this year when Google Vio came out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Joel Lava:Because I saw someone create a chat GPT script that's basically like a mad libs where it's a questionnaire. What genre do you want? How many characters, blah, blah, blah? What location, what lighting style? And then it just spit out literally a Hollywood production level scene of like a dude in the wilderness walking through the snow, and then he goes into an old cabin, and all the camera angles are cool, and the lighting is and it looks real. So I'm and like I got into a debate with my friend who's in he edits television, and I was saying it's gonna be over in 2027, and like I was like, I don't like the term AI slop because it blows me away what people call slop. And he's like, like to create a fake person talking in a scene before AI would take a team of people weeks, and it would still have that uncanny valley. Now, that exact same scene that would take highest level professionals weeks is literally being done with a text prompt in like five seconds, and that is so mind-blowing when for people call it slop, or my editor friend who really he's great and he studies performance and how things tie together. He's like, Yeah, but the performances are just they're not I'm like, dude, we're look where we were a year ago.
Carmen Lezeth:I think people are are are using that as like a way to make themselves feel better, like, oh, there's deadness in the eyes. And I'm like, I just believed what I just saw.
Joel Lava:I also I also point out to like King Kong in 1927, yes, you know, the Ray Harry Hall. Yeah, but the audiences ate that up, or just go back and watch a movie from the 1980s, like a VFX, like you watch it now, and you're like, oh, that's like some weird VFX. Right.
Carmen Lezeth:Like you can watch any of the Star Wars, the first ones, you know what I mean?
Joel Lava:That up and like we accept it. And if if we go see anything now, but see, now we're not gonna go to theaters. We're like some 14-year-old in his bedroom is gonna output a feature film that he that took him like two weeks to make, and it's gonna become viral, and there'll be a couple things in it where like, oh, yeah, that was AI, but we're gonna overlook it, and that's that. And it's a game, that's why I think Hollywood's gonna be the next coal industry.
Carmen Lezeth:So, so what do you think? You think it's gonna wow, you so you're seeing it on the negative end of it.
Joel Lava:Do you not see it's negative for me, not for humanity?
Carmen Lezeth:So, what are you planning to do?
Joel Lava:So, what do you I don't have any other skill? I have really good management skills. I'm really good at managing teams of people, and I and I'm talking teams of sensitive artists, so I could easily manage any other industry, but I don't know. I've looked into like becoming an ER nurse, but that takes two years to train, and I don't have two years of no income. So, but I I've been pretty lazy about it because I I honestly think this is coming. I think there's the whole commercial world is gonna have no more suits. Why would a brand that has a million dollars to spend on marketing buy two commercials for 500,000 when it can get 95% of the quality for 50,000 and then it has another 900,000 left to micro-target across social media platforms? We're already seeing it.
Carmen Lezeth:Like why wouldn't you see that your skills could be and don't don't get mad at me, but like that your skills could be used with AI and you could I do, but I think it's gonna be a drastically reduced number.
Joel Lava:Anyone can pick up a pencil and write or type on a keyboard, but they don't do it. They still hire writers, you know? Like there's still gonna be people needed to execute these things in the in volume. It's just we're not gonna need location scouts or casting or grips, or we don't VFX industry is completely gone. Why couldn't you be a consultant to an AI world that is going to be first of all, you have a lot of successful working directors already who could easily just port to overseeing a team of three text prompters, and so it's just gonna be even more competitive. And so the chances of me I think the real I think the real I'm just asking.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm just I mean, look at we're we're all thinking of these things.
Joel Lava:I'm saying it's all gonna be just gone, and there's just gonna be a few people left, and that's those few people are gonna be ultra competitive. And I I actually think one of the ways to set a person's self apart is to be one of those self-creators who make their own content. And I just don't, because I have kids and I'm working, I don't have time, and I'm uh and the free time I do have, I'm putting into politics and activism. I it's just I gotta tell you, it's just not you remember like the desktop revolution when we used to have graphic designers in a studio with tables and comes saying a lot of old school graphic designers like I'm not sitting at a computer, like I have to use my hands, I have to be tactile to create the true art. And it's like, okay, sorry, feel that way. Bye. Right now it's like I like to do via I like to make CG stuff and I like, but I love to be on set. And just I'm telling you, just the the human experiential process of just sitting there and writing a text prompt and then waiting for it to come out, and then hmm, that's not quite right. Let me adjust this word, and then like that is a completely totally that's like with fish riding a bicycle. It's like a completely different process of what I've spent my life doing and enjoying. So it's like the motivation to sit in a computer and just type that phrase, hmm, let me alter that word from yellow to beige, and then and then I'm just sitting there like looking at my wall. It's like I feel dead inside. That's why I'm not like super excited about it.
Carmen Lezeth:No, I and I'm just asking because I I'm curious what people because I know you don't reject AI in general. You've used it, I've seen stuff that you've done with it. So it's just interesting to hear you say that for humanity it's not a bad thing, but for you personally it is.
Joel Lava:For the for the filmmaking industry, it's a complete uh extinction level event, but for humanity, it's democratized. It means everyone. I mean, I truly believe like the Black Mirror idea, like not next year, but there's gonna be a point where you sit down on Netflix and you bring up a thing and you're like, or you just talk into your Netflix, your remote, and you just say, I want to watch a movie starring uh Scarlett Johansson and John Wayne taking place on the moon, and it's an action comedy that's a minute, an hour, 45 minutes, and uh it's as if it's directed by Spielberg and DP'd by Janice Kamaninsky.
Carmen Lezeth:Wow, that's so weird, all these names.
Joel Lava:No, and you're gonna be like, okay, and let me watch it. And then it's like there's a progress bar, and then 10 seconds later you start watching your film because it writes the script and then just starts rendering it. That's already that's already technology.
Carmen Lezeth:That's already happening, yeah.
Joel Lava:So why why and then I get the joy of like I made this, I made this, like this is only happening because of me, these variables, and then I feel it's ownership and this giddiness. And that's great for humanity, it's just bad for the Hollywood uh industry.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, I don't know if I think Hollywood's dying. I might disagree with you there. I think it's changing, I think it's gonna be something different. I don't know what it turns into, but I I don't like that you might be right. But that tends to be how we usually interact anyway. Wait, we should first tell people we worked for a company that did motion graphics, right? And not action.
Joel Lava:There was once a company called Fuel. This is in the year 2000. It was the dawn of the motion graphics golden age, where money was flowing and ideas were flowing, and anything went and uh and social mores were much looser. And then this one company broke up into like five different highly successful influential motion graphics companies when each person left to start their own company. One of them was run by a then 23-year-old.
Carmen Lezeth:We don't need to say his name, but I'll bleep it out. It's okay, yeah. But 23-year-old, right? Was he 23 years old? I guess he was that young. Yeah.
Joel Lava:So we met, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:And uh I don't remember actually meeting you though.
Joel Lava:Well, I don't remember. I don't remember the moment I shook your hand.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't think we shook hands. But I were you at the original office in Abbott Kenny?
Joel Lava:Yes.
Carmen Lezeth:Wow. Okay.
Joel Lava:I was freelanced, but yes.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, no, you were always freelance. You never took him up on any offers or whatever, right? Um yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, no, so I was just asking about that. I was just uh because you know, people I always like people to know how I meet.
Joel Lava:And I think we I think we probably hit it off a little bit more than the next guy because I was technically old because I was 28.
Speaker 2:You were old.
Joel Lava:And so we you there was like there was a clear difference in my vibe than from all these like 22, 23-year-olds.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, because I think I was more, I mean, I was like the mother of the office. There weren't that many women. It was like me and Angela. I like when I showed up, Angela was the only other woman girl in the office. You know what I mean? And so I think that was a big deal. But I was also uh pretty quiet because I was pretty busy. Because once he fired some guy, um, I took over and so I had to learn it all really quick. But so for that it was a good experience. But I I remember you more from um yeah, because all the girls used to talk about you all the time.
Joel Lava:So all the people that we know that's not true because you literally just said there were no women in the world.
Carmen Lezeth:I know, but there were because then we had so young, like once we started hiring people. So and when we moved over to Euclid, we did have more people. But you were like a shy guy, even at brand new school, like Joel. Oh my god. So you think okay, so how did you react to that situation then?
Joel Lava:I enjoyed it.
Carmen Lezeth:What do you mean you enjoyed it? So you went out with them, you took up dates.
Joel Lava:I actually regret not going out with some of them because I was so focused on just having a job.
Carmen Lezeth:That's my point. Like you're that's exactly my point.
Joel Lava:You were I didn't want to be unprofessional and get fired.
Carmen Lezeth:I know, but that's my point. Other people would take the risk and do it, and they have.
Joel Lava:Well, I wasn't shy, I just uh didn't get fired.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't think you realize that you come across as being very shy and very quiet. At least back in the day, you do. You came across that way. But you seem to describe it more as maturity and professionalism. So that's fair. You know, I I thought no one in that office was very professional. I spent a lot of my time um at that first company that we met at, um, putting out fires consistently on a regular basis. Not that that was supposed to be my job, but that so many people, you know, it's so funny how you described it earlier, you know, like, but to me it was an unhinged place that didn't understand professionalism and didn't understand how easily certain people could be sued for saying certain things. And I think I talked to you about that before about keyword being thrown around and women being treated. Do you remember there was a bachelor party that was held at the do you remember that at the Euclid phase?
Joel Lava:I I'm agreeing with you that I was I was professor.
Carmen Lezeth:They brought in strippers. Let me just tell you, they brought in a stripper who was dripping a lot, and I had to pull one of the few women who was dancing with her as the guys were egging them on. You you just showed me a picture of one of the women I'm talking about. I had to pull her away and say, absolutely not, and throw her into my office.
Joel Lava:What was she gonna do?
Carmen Lezeth:She was dancing with the stripper, a the woman stripper, as the guy, and I was like disrobing for I have no, I didn't let it happen. I mean, it was an unhinged place.
Joel Lava:Yeah. Um I was not part of all that because I was professional.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't think you would, I I don't remember who was there. I know who it was for.
Joel Lava:I'm saying just anything like that. Again, if you want to call it shy or whatnot, I just would limit my vocabulary and whatnot.
Carmen Lezeth:Um no, I'm saying that's how it came across, is if you were shy and kind of but I like what you said.
Joel Lava:It was not a professional place.
Carmen Lezeth:It was not a professional place at all. And it never became a professional place.
Joel Lava:And I mean at that time that suited it very well creatively as well.
Carmen Lezeth:And it was doing well. I mean, it was uh it was definitely bringing in so much money, right? We were bringing in tons of money at that point, and it was but for people like me, um yeah, I learned a lot. I learned a lot because of that situation, but I also don't think you need to learn a lot through harm or through negativity or through bad experiences. I don't think that's the way it has to be, you know, but I did gain that from that. But um, but yeah, I I think that's why I don't talk to so many people from there at all. I I don't have much respect for a lot of people that worked there and participated in a lot of, even though I think a lot of people were geniuses in their own right. You know what I mean? But I yeah. And if I could do it all over again, I would have never taken the job. I thought of that the other day. I would have walked away. I wish I had, because I think um I still have a bitter taste in my mouth about that place, which is weird, right? I don't know. Um, okay, I have some other questions. I did not know, and you're don't be mad at me. I did not know how many awards you've won because of your I didn't realize you won Emmys. When did that happen? Was I around?
Joel Lava:No, no, I I won most of no one I won the Emmy in like 2018.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, so it was way after the fact. Okay. I didn't, I wasn't in touch with you. I was like, I don't remember that happening. Let me see. You've been a director and creative director for over 20 years. You're here in California, your background is in animation and visual effects with a strong emphasis on storytelling through motion graphics. Oh no, motion design, sorry. You've won Emmy's Telly's, F what's FWA? That's a word you've been featured on South by Southwest. What?
Joel Lava:FWA is more web-based, like microsite, like the web award.
Carmen Lezeth:Um, you describe yourself as thriving at the intersection of story, motion design, and visual effects. Is that true?
Joel Lava:Yeah, it's freaking true as fuck.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, we'll talk about. Um, you love leading teams both on live action sets and in post-production, but you just said that. Um, are you known for saying when in doubt, flare it out? What does that mean?
Joel Lava:Uh that means like if when is for motion graphics and compositing, if something's not quite looking right, just add a flair. You know, like a JJ Abrams flair.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Joel Lava:And it just gives it that extra.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, got it. Always have a joke book handy? No. Is that true? Oh no. What's your favorite joke? Which favorite? You have to read it? Okay.
Joel Lava:It's a joke book. A man goes to a psychiatrist and says, Doc, my brother's crazy. He thinks he's a chicken. The doctor says, Why don't you turn him in? The guy says, We would, but we need the eggs.
Carmen Lezeth:See, those are dorky things. Okay.
Joel Lava:I have some really go, I have some go-to jokes that have served me well in life.
Carmen Lezeth:That's okay. I'm good. I'm good.
Joel Lava:No, but I have like, depending on the audience, I have some really good ones that will win people over.
Carmen Lezeth:But you've already won me over, so does it really matter? Okay, looky. I love this. I love that you say this. We are all interns. I do love that. Yeah. Is that something you say or not true? This is a Google search.
Joel Lava:Well, I mean, it's a good that's my mode. You're reading my link, you're reading my LinkedIn profile.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm not, they are.
Joel Lava:I I would I no, it just means remember be humble.
Carmen Lezeth:No, I love that. That's my favorite.
Joel Lava:And it also means we're all if if we're and not just creatively, but in any line of life, we should always strive to be learning. And if we're always learning something, that means we're always taking on something we're ignorant about, which means and if we're always pursuing knowledge, then we're always an intern in some aspect of our life.
Carmen Lezeth:I love it. I think it's a simple line with a lot of depth. That should be a signature line. Okay, you ready for some I'm ready. For some lightning round questions.
Joel Lava:I love lightning round.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay. I don't have that many though. I just did like all right. What's your favorite? Wait.
Joel Lava:Lightning.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, you're such a dork. I think that's what I love about you.
Joel Lava:You are such a dork. Lightning round.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah. I just want you to know that when I edit, I'll be deleting all of that.
Joel Lava:Oh no, that was amazing. I'm just kidding.
Carmen Lezeth:Seriously. Okay. What's your favorite curse word?
Joel Lava:I mean, fuck.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay. What's a film you wish you directed?
Joel Lava:Oh. That's a interesting way you phrase it because there's my favorite movies, but I I didn't wish I directed it. I can tell you the movie I movies I want to direct that I won't. That's easier, but Okay.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't even know what that means.
Joel Lava:It means I want to do a sequel spin-off to Back to the Future, where it happens now and goes back to like 95, basically, right as the internet is starting.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, that's a great idea.
Joel Lava:And it's a 90s, so you can bring in like all the 90s grunge and just compare the mentality of the you know Yahoo and pets.com and just that world of the late 90s, and no concept of what an iPhone is, or yeah, they still had glasses.
Carmen Lezeth:Didn't we have pagers and stuff?
Joel Lava:Like yeah, we had barely had pagers. We had pagers barely had cell phones.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Joel Lava:Like that was back. I was a PA in the late 90s, and we would charge on our invoice how many minutes of cell phone time we used to get ready.
Speaker 2:That's so weird.
Joel Lava:And it's like the it was pre-9-11. Yeah, like security at airports. Like there's all this stuff that like a kid from now, like Marty McFly's grandson or whatever. So that's that's like one movie I would love to make direct. And I I have another one that actually I love so much. I'm not gonna say publicly.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, fair.
Joel Lava:I think I've told it to you privately, but yeah, that's okay.
Carmen Lezeth:I won't share it.
Joel Lava:There are some movies like I would have loved to direct um the eighth episode of Star Wars, the one that completely went off the rails.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm not a Star Wars person, so there's your answer. I would have liked to do uh I saw the first three, the original first three, and then I saw the one I saw the one with Harrison Ford and you know when he's older, yeah, and Layout.
Joel Lava:That was the Force Awakens. I would have liked to direct the one after that. That's it. Okay, yeah.
Carmen Lezeth:I didn't see the one after that. Okay, yeah. I'm kind of an originalist when it comes to Star Wars. I don't know. Um I'm more of a Star Trek fan. Did you know that? I didn't.
Joel Lava:That's that's really cool.
Carmen Lezeth:I'm a Star Trek person. I'm not a Star Wars fan. And there is a difference. Okay. Uh, what's a protest sign you still remember? One that you made or one that you saw?
Joel Lava:Uh the an interesting one is because I've learned a lot about protesting. I've never really I did like the Iraq war protest in 2003, um, but never saw much use of protesting. I think it is very useful now. And so I've learned a lot. I've learned what like keep I learned keep it to like three words, make them as bold lettering possible. There's a difference between protest signs when you're on the street versus in a march. Like if you're in a march, you can have like a bunch of words and stuff. Yeah, so but the one I really thought was just awesome, and I didn't make it up, was it took the Tesla logo, which is like the T, and it turned it upside down, and it looked like a Ku Klux Klan hat, and it and the word the word was Ku Klux Klan. Um, and it's coup-co-p.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah. And so it was calling Tesla white nationalist, like racist, which is you know, well, you you hate Tesla and Elon Musk a lot.
Joel Lava:Well, I liked it because it took the logo and completely literally inverted it into a clan hat, and then used the word coup, which our country's under a coup, and it added the racism. So I just and it was like really popular, people loved it, and I just left holding it for like two months. And then at a certain point, I was like, the the narrative had shifted, so I I don't hold it anymore.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, but I but I love that you you protest all the time. I mean you pretty much do it weekly if you need to.
Joel Lava:You're obviously I hold I I organize, I'm the leader of a weekly protest of two weekly protests.
Carmen Lezeth:Um okay. Um let me see. What's your comfort food after a long shoot?
Joel Lava:You can't go wrong with a burrito.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay.
Joel Lava:Oh, but I also love street dogs after like a concert.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, is that like a hot dog?
Joel Lava:Yeah, the dudes with the carts and their Oh, yeah, no.
Carmen Lezeth:I don't need hot dogs. Even when I was a little kid, I do not do hot dogs. Okay. Um what moment do you wish you could relive just once?
Joel Lava:I mean, I I don't uh I'm assuming I I I took that to mean if I could do it differently, not it was just a wonderful thing I'd like to re-experience.
Carmen Lezeth:Whatever you however you want to interpret, there's no rules here too.
Joel Lava:No, I know. I'm just explaining. I went kind of to the negative.
Carmen Lezeth:Um don't go to the negative, be positive.
Joel Lava:Well, no, I uh I'm just I gotta speak my truth.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry, you're right. Go ahead.
Joel Lava:Um, I don't have many regrets in life after age like 18 because or 19, because I had some series of things that happened where I realized the angst and pain I feel of not having taken act of not remedying the situation for better or for worse through action or inaction eats at me so much that I can't I have to do, I have to take action. So my regrets and my formative years was uh it's I'm trying this is like trying to not light me around question, but I was there that I was at a summer camp, it was like the three or four week sessions. I love to camp. And I was at the finally the oldest bunk, you know, like so I was probably like 13. I told a story, like the first day of camp when we're all like getting shots at the infirmary or something. And when I was in the youngest bunk, we played strip poker, and so we're like six, seven-year-olds, and it was just like a funny story, and all the guys just they they decided to take it in, they started calling me gay. And uh there's nothing wrong with being gay, but when you're not gay, you're talking about a little kid and you're talking about a different time. But when I'm not gay and I'm 13, and they were they were just dot making fun of me all the time, and I didn't know what to do. And it got it was so bad that my counselors were like, you should kick their ass. Like, even my counselors were like, sometimes you have to and I that that's I'm not gonna be. Yeah. And then there was I was refereeing, I was scorekeeping, there was a basketball tournament, and I was focusing on that, and I heard laughing. I thought I may have heard my name. And I it was you know, the basketball courts by the tennis courts. It's a summer camp out in the Texas Hill country. And I look and there's like the the bull, it's like from a you know, a teen uh teen movie. The dudes who are like bullying me are with some girls and they're all laughing. And that moment has just stuck out with me for my whole life. And I all I did was I pulled in and got self-hating, angry. And what I wish I did is I went over there and beat the shit out of them.
Carmen Lezeth:I think that's fair enough.
Joel Lava:And the reason I didn't is because I would have been kicked out of camp and my parents would have thrown me into therapy, which is like this.
Carmen Lezeth:I never thought you were such a rule follower. It's so interesting.
Joel Lava:This pivotal moment, like when you break down the layers, there's so many things about my relationship with my parents and just so much like deep stuff. But yeah, just the idea of not standing up for myself and not asserting my own agency. I've I've uh I had a recent experience. Um, I was playing on a basketball team for the first time in 15 years this year on a rec league, and I'm not as good as I was because I I can't jump anymore. Um I I accept that, but I'm still good. And there's guys who are like in their 20s on the team and they're just they can move better, so I'm fine like that. But I I want to play. And I I went in in the second half expecting to play like at least half a quarter, half the half. And after a few minutes, they were subbing me out, and I got really angry, and I got angry at the guy subbing me out first, and I at first was just holding it all inside because like I don't want to cause a scene on a rec league team. Okay, and then after the game I went up to him and I I was like, I remember I said to the effect of next time, like don't fucking pull me off so quick, like what the fuck? And then he's like, and then I realized uh kind of it wasn't just like our best player was sort of would sub people in and out. Anyway, I you know, because I've been doing a lot of work on myself too. Um and I just like how do I what is the proper way to handle this? Because like I was like, I'm getting mad at that dude who isn't he's not as good as me. And and I just was like so moving forward on the team what I did when I checked into the game, I was like, hey, I'm gonna play for seven minutes. Look for me after route, like at uh whatever time mark, and I'll let you know if I'm ready to come out. And I'm not gonna come out until then. And so I I asserted you took I said I took leadership. I said, here's how it's gonna be, here's and and it worked that way. And then in our championship game, they tried to sub me out again, and I had just been only playing for two minutes, and I had I had a steal and two rebounds already. I was playing really well, okay, and they were trying to take me out. I was like, no, I I said no, I'm playing great. Like, I'm gonna play for three more minutes, and just to like be confrontational like that, right, but also keeping it civil is like a real skill because you can be like, What the fuck you motherfucker? I'm doing like a lot of guys go right there. I kept it like civil and mature, but I was being very strong and how I what I was gonna do.
Carmen Lezeth:So did they let you play?
Joel Lava:Yeah, I wasn't uh because I was like, I'm not coming out, sit, sit, sit down.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, cool. Awesome. I love that you're working on yourself. I think that's a good thing. Um, okay, what's a sound that soothes you instantly? If you don't have one, you don't have one.
Joel Lava:I would say the sound of my child sleeping.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, that's sweet. Okay. I was hoping you'd say something more controversial. Okay. What's a book that changed your mind?
Joel Lava:Oh man, there's so many.
Carmen Lezeth:Nope, a book.
Joel Lava:I would I've read a lot of parenting books, and most of them are just they state the obvious, but there's a book called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. I think is required reading for everyone, whether you have kids or not.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay, fair enough. Um what is your favorite movie?
Joel Lava:Delicatessen. 1993. It's a maybe it's a French movie. Um I don't know it. Like, do you know the movie Amelie?
Carmen Lezeth:Yes, not my favorite.
Joel Lava:That well, I loved it. They and the City of Lost Children, the guys who made those movies, they're it was their earlier, it was their earlier movie.
Carmen Lezeth:Okay. Um, what's a scene you've watched a hundred times and still feel something?
Joel Lava:Well, again, there's many like that, but I will say The Martian by Ridley Scott.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, for sure.
Joel Lava:There's a montage sequence in the middle where they're like meeting with the Jack Chinese and building the rockets, and it's just all montage to a David Bowie song. I've literally written out every shot like on a text documentary.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh, that's awesome. Wow. It was something you would ask me if this were your show. Ha ha ha ha show is Or you could ask me anything because I get to decide whether we keep it or not. So go ahead.
Joel Lava:If this was my show and I was talking to the esteemed Carmen Lazette.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, Carmen Lisette.
Joel Lava:Um, I would be like, what what is your it doesn't have to be precise, but like what is your like if you have like a two or three year plan for all the work you're putting into your podcast, what like a metric of success as well as how you would know it's your six you're making a difference.
Carmen Lezeth:I think I'm already making a difference, and I do not have a plan, and I'm doing it because I love uh meeting people, talking to people, and having a place to have some sort of creativity. I've also learned a lot. Uh I cannot express how much respect I have for editors. And I'm, of course, not even pretending I'm editing in any level whatsoever, as film does or any of these other people, but just editing my own audio or my own video on my own little tools that I have has been an incredible learning curve. And I now have a different love of the art of film that I don't think I would have ever had before because I understand now editing on a different level and audio and lighting, and so in that sense, it's been really great. So I don't, I'm surprised by how much success we've had, and I wasn't trying.
Joel Lava:So But my question is what what I don't have a plan. What metrics do you define success?
Carmen Lezeth:Well, there's different ones, right? There's audience for the podcast, there's audience for uh the videos, there's feedback from people. We get a lot of emails. I've had a couple people tell me that um they're so grateful that I said A, B, C, and D. I've had four Trump supporters tell me that they know they made a mistake and that they've changed their mind. I think that is crazy on so many levels, like just crazy. And that's not just from the current show that me and Andrea are doing. That's just over all this time, right? So for me, that's huge. I also measure success, and people who watch the show on Friday nights know this. We get so many people who hate us. Because there's so much engagement, you know what I mean? So you can see like who likes you whatever is to friends or blah, blah, blah, or people who follow you, okay, great, and I'm very appreciative. But the amount of people who hate what we're doing, especially Culture and Consequence, which is the political show, or anytime we talk about um politics, we get a lot more people who like us, but a lot more people who hate us too. And that's also a measure. I think the minute I start making this about something other than what its intention was, it's gonna lose its um like what I love about it, because it's already a lot of work. I'm spending at least 40 hours a week on this show, right? At least. And I don't really have a lot of help. I don't have, you know, I have people who come on the show on a regular basis, but I don't have people who are doing editing. I'm not paying people to do anything, you know? So, but I think the minute it starts becoming something like that, without, I mean, don't get me wrong, if I had the money, I would hire people to help me. Do you know what I mean? But I don't want to lose why I'm doing it. But I think the minute you start having a team and all this stuff, I think maybe you lose something. So I don't know. I'm I'm open to it because I would love to be able to make an income, you know, doing this. And when you talk about AI, and I think about AI, I think about what it is that I can bring to the table because it is changing. Everybody's industry is changing. I don't want to see it as dying, though I don't think you're wrong. But I I like to look at it, you know, in a more positive light to figure out what I can bring to the table as well and contribute. And I think part of it will be my personality, my ability to interview, my ability to bring people together, my ability to kind of have these conversations.
Joel Lava:Excellent.
Carmen Lezeth:Thank you, Joel.
Joel Lava:I have uh I have an editing thing that might speed up your editing drastically, but we can I can play you after that.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah, that's cool. All right, well, thank you so much. I appreciate you stopping by as always. You'll have to come by again with the group if you ever want to, and we can I always want to. I always you're always welcome to come.
Joel Lava:I feel like this is a probably a normal response to people who are interviewed, is I always feel like I completely didn't give you what you wanted.
Carmen Lezeth:Oh my god. I think you think too much. I adore you, but you you're one of the few people. I I think most people don't think enough. I'm being honest, most people have no ability to kind of just think things through and say things, but you're one of these people I think that thinks way too much. And then you you gave you gave me everything I need. Everything.
Joel Lava:Thank you.
Carmen Lezeth:Yeah. Anyways, everyone, thank you so much. Remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy. Thank you, Joel. Bye. But don't log off. Oh my god, I'm so cutting all that out. Let's see how my editing skills are.
Joel Lava:Why do you cut it out?
Carmen Lezeth:I don't know. Thanks for stopping by, all about the joy. Be better and stay beautiful, folks. Have a sweet day.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
