Shutdowns, Side Effects, and the Cost of Not Listening

A rushed doctor visit, a push for weight loss meds, and a simple question about sleep spiral into a bigger truth: our healthcare system is built for billing codes, not people. We share what it feels like to chase rest through a maze of referrals, to be offered a prescription for the wrong problem, and to long for the old-school visit where a doctor sat down, listened, and connected the dots.

That frustration sets the stage for the week’s political whiplash. We unpack the shutdown theater that cost workers paychecks and put safety nets at risk while inching the ACA back onto the chopping block. If leadership planned to cave, why inflict the pain? We pull apart the optics of “strategy,” the empty promise of replacements for Obamacare, and the downstream consequences for anyone who relies on guaranteed coverage and preexisting condition protections.

Then the headlines shift: the Epstein files resurface old truths about power and impunity. Does any of it move minds? Maybe not—but it matters for survivors, for accountability, and for understanding how institutions slow-walk the stories that define public memory. And just when it’s all too heavy, we land on something tender and real: Jimmy Kimmel’s 22-minute tribute to his friend and bandleader, Cleto. It’s a masterclass in showing up—proof that masculinity can be love, loyalty, and bringing your people with you when success finally arrives. We talk chosen family over DNA, the kind of friend who flies in for your surgery, and why care—not outrage—is the only strategy that scales.

If this resonates, tap follow, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review. Then text someone you love. Show up. That’s the whole point.

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Awkward Start And Doctor Visit
• 2:10 Sleep Struggles And One-Issue Appointments
• 4:55 Weight Loss Drugs And System Limits
• 5:55 Insurance Rage And Care Fragmentation
• 6:45 Shutdown Fallout And Obamacare Fears
• 9:25 Strategy, Pain, And Political Weakness
• 12:05 Who Caved And Why It Matters
• 14:20 Epstein Files: What Changes, What Doesn’t
• 17:15 Trump, Celebrity Power, And Grift
• 19:20 Kimmel’s Tribute And True Friendship
• 22:05 Family By Choice Over DNA
• 25:00 Masculinity, Money, And The Galloway Debate
• 28:30 Shifts In Power And Perspective
• 31:00 Empathy, Accountability, And Moving Forward
• 34:10 Closing Reflections And Homework

Transcript

Carmen Lezeth: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy. This is Culture and Consequence with Carmen and Andrea. Hey, what's up, Andrea? How are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? Because normally in our conversations, I would say what I anyway, it doesn't matter. Okay. Let's start that over. I had a uh a doctor's appointment this morning, and I love this doctor, I really do. Um, but they're all pushing those weight loss things. Oh, the uh the GLP ones or whatever, you know, and they're pushing it? I don't know, she's pushing it, but I like so I was like, you know what? I'm just I'm so stressed out because I really want to get back to that place of running or whatever, you know, because you have that little kind of conversation, but you can't talk to them about anything other than what the visit is for, because then you have to it's such aren't like I want to go back to the day where you can go to the doctors. Like I remember Dr. Umger, who is my favorite doctor, he's since retired. But I would go get my GYN from him. I would, you know, and it would be one visit, and he would you'd go in early, you'd get your blood work from somebody else in the office. He would have you sit in his actual office, not in the room, but in his office, and he would be like, So what's going on? Okay, let's go do the exam. Like, and that feels like it was so long ago.

Andrea: 1:30

It's so different from, I mean, I don't think I've ever had that exactly, but I have had doctors that spend a little more time with you. But yeah, if there's, you know, a lot of times what I do throughout the year I've started doing is like I keep a list of all of my, you know, what, you know, my shoulder's doing this and waking up at this time every night. You know, I have all of my things, right? Like my ear hurts sometimes, you know. Um, and so I go in with my list and they're like, oh, well, that's you'd have to see somebody else for that, and we'd have to schedule another appointment for this.

Carmen Lezeth: 2:02

It's like, yeah, yeah, because they they won't talk to you about like all I said to her was I was having issues sleeping. And I mean, not that I meant for this to be the conversation, but it's gonna be the conversation that'll and you had mentioned something that you've been doing, and so I was like, oh, maybe I can try that. And that's like, you know what? Let's set up a different com uh a different appointment for that. And I'm like, you know, so yeah, so I I had mentioned, I'm like, I can't sleep, and when I can't sleep very well, and it's really changed a lot. I've always been a light sleeper, but this is a little bit beyond. Um, and so when I don't sleep well, I can't, I don't eat well because then I don't work out well, you know what I mean? And I'm in that weird cycle, yeah, you know, um, and then I'm so tired by the end of the whatever, let's say the week of not sleeping, that then I sleep really well. I wake up the next morning, I'm like, yes, and then it just deteriorates. So, but it was so she was just like, Well, you know, there's a lot of um uh weight loss drugs now available. And I'm like, I'm I'm not taking, I'm not gonna take weight loss. Like, that's not the first answer I want to hear. Well, and how's that like how is it related? I don't know. Well, because I because I am she's trying to say without saying because we can't have the conversation. Right. You know what I mean? Like I'm 25, I've already admitted this, so I don't care. I'm like 25, 30 pounds overweight. Um, and so I need to lose that weight. And that's fair. I mean, I feel like I've been in that struggle with the thyroid medication, and I've just been, and I'm I'm I'm still not settled. And after the surgery, I swear to God, they everyone keeps telling me that that surgery did not mess up my thyroid, but I didn't have a problem with my thyroid before then.

Andrea: 3:48

Yeah, you have no, they don't know that.

Carmen Lezeth: 3:50

Nobody has nobody knows that. None of them will they're like, no, no, those are two separate things. I'm like, nobody invaded my body before. Like Dr.

Andrea: 4:01

Gardeck with metal in your body now, right? Like, I'm sorry, you have metal in your body now, like something's different.

Carmen Lezeth: 4:08

I don't know. I mean, again, I'm not trying, but I'm just saying all of this went like my hip is great, but everything else feels like whatever. Anyway, so I'm just so I said to her, said I don't wanna, I don't wanna take any medication because I have a sleep problem. Like I'm not trying to be me.

unknown: 4:27

Right.

Carmen Lezeth: 4:28

And I honestly, and again, I'm not against it. I don't know if you saw the show. We Cynthia talked about it because she's been on it, and I'm I'm all for people doing it, but I don't think that should be my first. I don't think I I don't think being 25 pounds overweight is the reason why I'm not sleeping. I think it's something else. And anyways, I just was kind of like I left there kind of sad, you know. Like, I'm so tired of our health insurance in this country. I'm tired the way in which we we are patients, you know. And she's a great doctor. My doctor is an amazing doctor, and even I was just like disappointed.

Andrea: 5:06

Well, yeah, I mean, they're they're they're bound by the system that they're in, right? Like they have like the billing is like we have to put this code in for your visit. You know what I mean? Like that's why you have to have another visit for something else, or else they literally can't get paid. I mean, it's just it's such a fucking mess.

Carmen Lezeth: 5:22

It's our health insurance situation is problematic, which leads us into our first topic of conversation, which is that, you know, the Democrats caved, right? They so we so we're not gonna probably have Obamacare after this year. I mean, what do you think? What do you how do you feel about what happened with the shutdown?

Andrea: 5:42

Um, well, how do I feel about it? I'm gonna try to be really measured. Um you don't have to be. I think look, I think number one, I will say not a lot of good options were there, right? Um however, if this is where we were gonna end up, what was the fucking point? Exactly.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:10

I don't even need to be here. You could just have the show on your own. That's what I was gonna say. What was the point?

Andrea: 6:15

Yeah, and it's like I I know what the point was. I understand that they had a strategy in terms of the timing of it all, right? Um the strategy fucking blows, and Chuck Schumer is a weak dipshit ago, should have been gone years ago, but I agree. I agree. Uh but it it's just I don't know, you know what I mean? Like, whatever we just did a show last week where it was like, this was a good week, okay. You know what I mean? And it's like you just knew, I knew, you knew, like, we're gonna come back next week, and some fucked up shit is gonna have happened. At least four fucked up things are gonna have happened, and it's gonna just be completely deflating. And you know, like I said, I we may have ended up here anyway. I don't really think that Republicans would have been like, okay, okay, you got us, you know, but uh I don't know. Uh it just seems like if this is where you were gonna go, then why did you know uh people end up with without two whole paychecks? Why did you know SNAP benefits go away, which I don't think even have been restored yet? Nope. You know what I mean? Like it's just you put people through all of this pain for absolutely nothing and to look so fucking weak that people want your head on a platter now.

Carmen Lezeth: 7:39

Right.

Andrea: 7:40

Good job.

Carmen Lezeth: 7:41

Yeah, exactly. And you know, this idea that somehow they're playing chess. I'm like, can I just say politicians don't know how to play chess? I'm just gonna tell you right now, they don't. I don't care who it is. There's no chess game being played here, you know. Um, I feel the same way. I feel really deflated. I'm really sad because I think it's not just my insurance policy, whatever, I don't care. I'm just kind of like, in general, the I don't want to say this word because it sounds so old-fashioned even to me, but I don't know what other word encompasses it, but like shenanigans between both parties. Like, like the fact that the Republicans want to shut down Obamacare and have nothing to motherfucking replace it, and have never had even concepts of a plan for Obamacare or anything to help people have insurance in this country, is just be like the hatred of Barack Obama is so deep. Someone wrote on Facebook was like, you know what, just change it to Trump care. Obama's not gonna give a fuck. Just change it to Trump care and he'll be happy and we can all keep it and we can move on. And I was like, you know what? It's true.

Andrea: 8:48

It's not just the hatred of Obama, it's the hatred of poor people. They they want you to die. I mean, it's not even like they don't care, they actually actively want you to die. And I believe that wholeheartedly.

Carmen Lezeth: 9:02

Okay, I don't believe that wholeheartedly, but I can see where you're going with it. But I think that makes me sad on the Republican side. Like, what I don't understand why you guys are being so evil to accept what you just said. And then the other part of it is the Democrats, you know, I don't know where along the line they thought that it was going to be easy. Do you know what I mean? Like, so why get into the fight to begin with? And you know what's worse? As people went out and voted in droves last week and said, we want the fight, we believe in you, we're gonna do this, we're in it to win it, you know, and and they caved.

Andrea: 9:42

So that's why they waited. They waited until after the election. Yay, and then and then, you know, uh flights started getting canceled. Right. And with money started to be affected by it, and here we are. Here we are. And I'm not like I'm not a full-fledged conspiracy theorist. I'm really not. I'm not. Uh, but it does more than I am. I am definitely not a conspiracy. I mean, it's just like you hear all of the stuff like both parties are the same, and I don't believe that. I really don't. But you do have to wonder at the upper echelons, it's like what are you doing? Who are you serving? Because it's not us.

Carmen Lezeth: 10:30

It's not us.

Andrea: 10:31

And if this is the decision making, if this is the strategy, even the way, you know, I mean, it's it's been talked about a lot, like who actually ended up voting yes, and right, you know, people who are not going to be re-elected in the next term, right?

Carmen Lezeth: 10:44

They're already right, or I I couldn't believe Tim Kane. I'm like, you're Hillary Clinton's running mate. What are you doing? I couldn't believe that.

Andrea: 10:54

I couldn't believe that. Well, I mean, yeah, he's uh I would not to excuse at all because I don't, but like Virginia is trackful of federal workers, so he had like a you know, an out, I guess, right? To say, like, I all, you know, most of my state works for the federal government and has just missed two paychecks. So he was but again, they all have excuses. I mean, that's kind of what we're saying. Well I get into the fight then. Why? That's what I'm saying, is like the they chose people to say yes, to vote yes for specific reasons. Right. So people who are retiring, the people who weren't up for election, people had who had an easy way to say, well, this is why, you know.

Carmen Lezeth: 11:33

Um well, but on the on the bright side of things, we had to then make sure there was no more excuses for the dumbass house speaker, what's his name? Johnson. Whatever, whatever. Johnson not to um what how do you say it? Oh my god, I'm I'm so devoid of coffee right now because I had this doctor's appointment.

unknown: 11:56

Like, I can't.

Carmen Lezeth: 11:57

The congresswoman was finally brought into office, sworn into office after all the bullshittery, and now the floodgates of XD files and emails are are coming out, and I guess that's the upside. How are you feeling about those?

Andrea: 12:14

You know, I've been thinking about because I've been reading through them as one does. Um like so uh what my my my initial response is like I don't fucking care. Like we already knew all of this shit. Well, we knew it. Yeah, I wanted to you know it's it's meaningful to the victims, I believe, maybe. Um it's uh illuminating in terms of uh understanding what the New York Times was sitting on for so long, and how many uh the various people who felt like they wanted and needed to consult with, who at that point was already a convicted pedophile, convicted in 2011, and a lot of these emails are from like the you know 16, 17, when Trump was in office. So that's all interesting, but I don't think it moves any needles whatsoever. Because I don't know, I think it's what's an easy to find out. Like everyone is still in their places that they were, right? You've got the Trump cultists who like they don't they don't care. It doesn't I don't know. I think some of them are caring. Uh it doesn't seem like it, but and then the people who find him useful who are probably actually in the Epstein files themselves, and so that might make a difference at some point if we get them all, but and then the people who are sort of like where we are, where it's like, yeah, fucking duh, you know, does nobody remember the Graham by the Pussy, you know, video before he was elected?

Carmen Lezeth: 13:54

Like we don't know how I don't know how Christians could get past that, but then again, Christians. But here's something I thought was interesting. I saw where they said that Bill Clinton had never been to the island. Yeah, I thought that was interesting, um, because they were saying all along that Bill Clinton had whatever. And I'm like, I was always saying to myself, if Bill Clinton had actually done, they would have already put that out. They would have put that out day one.

Andrea: 14:18

Yeah, if Clinton was if they had any dirt on Clinton, that would have been out like a decade a long time ago.

Carmen Lezeth: 14:26

Yeah, but I mean who knows? Who knows? Because they're going through it and reading it and whatever. But I this is just such a sad place that our country's at. It's so weird that this is what we're discussing, that we have such a person in office that even mingled in this stuff, that even had an association with this man, that even has pictures at parties, and like before all this, like everything about Donald Trump is bad. It's always been bad. Just vile. Vile.

Andrea: 14:58

On every level on every level. It's it's um it's an eye-opening era for the concentration.

Carmen Lezeth: 15:06

How did people get so sucked into him? Seriously, if you could please speak on behalf of all white people. How is it? No, I'm being, you know what? I'm only kidding. But I'm saying, I really don't understand if we just go back to the basics of the beginning, not this election, but the beginning. He's creepy. Well, he's weird.

Andrea: 15:27

He is okay. So he he had that show, right? Oh, you're right. You know what? I'm sorry, that gave him a different right, I forgot. And you know, people love a person who's on, people love a celebrity. Um, and then there's like the whole pretty large faction, apparently, of people who just absolutely hated that there was a black man in the White House, and he rang their bell permission because he did the birther thing.

Carmen Lezeth: 15:58

He was on that whole birther thing, and yeah, um, yeah. He was like all about Barack Obama and he he was sending people to Hawaii or something, all these investigators never got that either. Um, about yeah, and so he gave them permission. I forgot about the show, the reality show, which reality shows are not actually reality shows, but it's like the idea that people were believing everything that was happening, but I guess that was the point. Even that they've like the fact that he was like a successful businessman, he's never been a successful businessman. That is not actually true, you know. Wait, wait, wait. Actually, you know what? Let me back up. That's not true. We gotta give Trump some credit because he has been an incredible businessman in office now because he's making so much money off the griff of being president of the United States. Yeah, so if there's ever been a time in his life that he has been brilliant as a businessman, it is right now.

Andrea: 16:57

Right. Well, yeah, he's a he's success a successful grifter.

Carmen Lezeth: 17:01

But I mean him and his family. And let's not let's not take his daughter out of this, whatever her name is, and because they're the ones who are totally making tons of money.

Andrea: 17:10

Yeah, definitely. So I mean What's the daughter's name again? I forgot. Ivanka.

Carmen Lezeth: 17:15

Oh, yeah, right. Ivanka. Let's move on to something that actually really broke my heart this week and I sent it to you, and that was Jimmy Kimmel, his friend Cleto died, who was also the band leader of his show. And uh actually, today is Jimmy Kimmel's birthday, which so weird. Yeah, so weird. Yeah, I sent you that video and I wanted to talk a little bit more about friendships because for those of you who don't know, on his monologue the day after, which I believe was on the 12th, if you haven't seen it, I think everyone should see this monologue that he did. It was like 22 minutes long, and it wasn't just that you end up crying with him, you could see the love. I mean, and he just, anyways, what did you think about it? Because I know you're not a huge Jimmy Kimmel watcher or fan or whatever, but who thought who thought we would be doing like two episodes of Jimmy Kimmel in the show, you know?

Andrea: 18:11

Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't watch any of the late night shows. Um, and I didn't know who Clito was. I did I obviously didn't know that his father was also in the band, which was so lovely. Like that part of it, what you know, when he talked about that, like being able to help his dad get back to music and have them be able to be together and and that his mom was there and his mom comes to the show every day, every every night, come to the show. I mean, it was just really moving. And um it just, you know, like I I think I saw some something somewhere else and I after I had watched it, you know, and someone said, This is what masculinity is, right? Sort of bring it back to some of the stuff that floats around out there, the masculinity crisis, the male loneliness crisis, and whatever. Like you don't have to have a crisis if you're just a fucking normal, caring person with good friends and happy relationships.

Carmen Lezeth: 19:09

I mean, you know, you're talking about Scott Galloway, let's just be open and honest about it on the podcast pivot, right?

Andrea: 19:17

Like you said, the love, the great love, and the and and what came through was just like this enduring the power of friendship, you know, and it just made me think of all of my friends. I don't have really friends that I like grow up with, but you know, I grew up as an adult with you and you know, some of my other friends, and how impactful and joyful it is to have those people in your life and how important it is, I think, for your own sanity and and your own growth and all of those things. I mean, it was just a really, really lovely, lovely tribute.

Carmen Lezeth: 19:56

It was a lovely tribute. And I, you know, for me, and I'm gonna I I don't want to embarrass you, but I think the the proof, not that people have to prove their friendship, but when it happens, when you have a moment and you step up or you don't, really is kind of telling. And I think what was beautiful was when Jimmy Kimmel said there was no jealousy, no jealousy whatsoever. Like he was because because Clito was making it before he was, right? With the Paul Abdul thing and whatever else. And then all of a sudden Jimmy Kimmel got this show. And because their friendship was so seamless, there was no jealousy. But Jimmy Kimmel was also like, this is my people. I have to, he has to be the band leader. I have to help his dad. I have to make there wasn't a question in it, you know. And I kind of was thinking about um my surgery. And when you came and you, yeah, I mean, I I know we talk about it in a funny way, but I I want to share this with people because I think it's an important thing to understand. Like you, you we were laughing because your family was like, Go, please go for two weeks, go, because you were like telling them Carmen is sick, blah, blah, blah, whatever, and I'm gonna go stay with her, whatever. And they were being really funny, like, please, mom, go. But but you did come out here and you stayed with me for two weeks when I was having surgery because I don't have anybody out here and I don't have a husband or whatever, and thank you, Jesus. But you know what I'm saying. And I think what was interesting is like I I don't even remember asking you. I remember telling you I'm gonna have this surgery, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And you were just like, okay, when is it? I'm gonna be there, da-da-da, whatever. What do you need? Da-da-da-da. And I I think that is far more important for people to understand that when you have friendships like that, you need to understand how blessed you are. You have to understand that is real wealth. I have known people with so much money who don't have anybody that they could turn to. So they would talk to the person that they hired. You know what I'm talking about.

Andrea: 21:59

I do. That's what my great observation is there is nobody around this person or these people who they are not paying to be there. Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 22:08

And and Sue, if you have one friend, I I don't care if it's on Zoom or whatever it is you do, like you should be so thankful that you have people in your life that will just talk to you because they want to talk to you because and they want to be there for you, you know? Right. But that that's kind of what I was thinking about. And I also wanted to stress because I think it's really important. Um, if I go before you, I I would like this. I want to see not just I want the the tears were real. I want to, I just want to put that out there.

Andrea: 22:39

Like No Dan, no Dan. We talked about this. I have to watch Field of Dreams and ET and all that's gonna suck if you do that then, though.

Carmen Lezeth: 22:52

I'm actually gonna say that you know what, since you've never seen them, that will just piss me off that you do it after I die. I'm just saying that'll just piss me off more. Like now you do it. But it was beautiful. And I also want to talk about the thing of family, because if there's ever been evidence to me, and I know most people don't believe this, I know, DNA don't mean jack shit. The tears he was the way he was feeling, that was his brother. And I was like, oh my god, I don't know. I don't know how you feel about that, but I'll just over the whole thing.

Andrea: 23:26

You know, I mean, we both have people in our families for various reasons that we do not talk to. And um, you know, we have people who we do, but uh, you know, you go out in the world and you find your people. And those people are your family.

Carmen Lezeth: 23:44

And I I always say it this way, like, and people get mad because they don't have an answer. But what if, God forbid, people in your family you found out that through some accident or whatever, through DNA, that they had been switched at birth? Does this mean like all of a sudden you don't love your daughter as much? Right. Or all of a sudden you don't love your father or whatever it is. Like those stories have actually happened. So I think more important than DNA is the relationships and the history and the way in which your relationship has evolved, you know. That's not to discount the blood thing. It's just not how I grew up. I I just don't have that experience.

Andrea: 24:18

So I mean, I'm you know, I have my blood family with me, but like I I also have my blood family not with me.

Carmen Lezeth: 24:27

But it's toxic, right? Like that's what I'm talking about. Like, if if someone is abusing you verbally or abusing you physically when you hear, and I know it's hard. I know it's a hard thing to walk away. I know it's hard to walk away from family, whatever, but no one should be treated badly just because you're blood related. Like, that's not a good enough excuse, not to me. It's not any excuse.

Andrea: 24:48

I mean, look, I'm I'm brutal about it, and I think you are somewhat, maybe not quite as much as me, but like when I'm done, I'm done. Like, I don't care who you are. Like you're out, and we like you are literally dead to me. You think you're worse than I am with that? Um, I mean, we might be equal because you, you know, you do you do cut people out.

Carmen Lezeth: 25:13

Yeah. But but I don't even think it's about cutting people. Well, I mean, it is cutting people out, but I think it's also, I mean, I think the phrase I said when I finally was like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore, is I said, I I am just a better person without all of you in my life. And I it you guys are wonderful people, whatever, but you're just not wonderful to me. And I get it. There's no way of fixing that riff, you know. And the thing is, is it's not a mean thing. It's just like at some point you make a decision that if you're not being your best self, if you're not happy, if you're not finding a way through it, if people are living in guilt, I can't fix that. I can't, I can't fix that. That has nothing to do with me and everything to do about you. And so that's how I did it. It's not really about even like, it's not about hate or whatever. It's like I need to be my best self, and I'm not my best self when the people who are quote unquote DNA related to me are supposedly in my life for all the wrong reasons. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a weird thing. But Jimmy Kimmel, I I just I just love him. But I want to get back to you dissing Scott Galloway because that's what you were doing. Um, please. So do you do you okay? So people who don't know, Scott Galloway is on a podcast called Pivot. It's with Karen Swisher. Um it's pretty big time now, but I used to listen to them back in the day, and um, I don't listen to him anymore, but he's all over the place because he's got a book and he always talks about masculinity and men. And there are some things he says that are good, I think. But it always seems to go back to blaming women and not having money. I don't know. It just seems like it always goes back to that.

Andrea: 26:57

Well, there you have it. I mean, do you listen to him? You don't I don't know. I know who he is. I used I think I don't know if I followed him on Twitter way, way back, but yeah, and then stopped and I realized. Yeah, like I used to follow him on Twitter, and then somewhere along the lines, he's like, I just noticed a little bit of a turn, right? Where I was like, that seems off. And then it started to get more and more like that. So I I stopped following him and I don't I've never listened to his podcast, but um I think I kind of get the gist more or less of what he's saying, and and I just uh I mean, look, money is important. I know people, you know, um the ability to make money is is important. Uh I think blaming that on, you know.

Carmen Lezeth: 27:46

He tries not to, like he tries not to, but that's actually what he's saying. And um, I think one of the things that he does really well is that he lets men know that it's okay to be men. I don't even know what to say. What does that mean? Well, I mean, because I think he is trying to say that we are in a culture now that to be a man means to be something else. But he's saying it's okay to cry, it's okay to do all these, telling men it's okay to be all these things, you're still a man. Um, but then he says things like, um, but the inability for a man to graduate from college and not be able to get a job, that is detrimental to their like manlyhood or something. And it's like, bitch, it's hard for all of us to get a job. Like, I don't know. Or he'll say things like, you know, um, when a man can't have a girlfriend or a woman or they can't find the right spouse, that somehow that's also diminishing men being men. And I'm like, oh my God, it's a weird. I know, I know you're about to go off on me. I'm just giving you little kind of ideas of what he says, but that's why he's getting some pushback. Now, in the same respects, he has gotten some pushback, and he'll say things like, you know, I am gonna consider that because I appreciate getting the feedback and I didn't think about it that way or whatever. But that's also part of his shtick, right? I mean, it's and I give him credit for it. I give him credit for it. I think that he's trying to help men, particularly white men. You know what I mean? He's trying to help men find their footing in this new landscape. And I can appreciate that. I know. I know, I know, I know. I'm just telling you what I think he's trying to do because it's look at there is a problem with white men. There is a problem with that's gonna be a clip somewhere. White men are having a tough time of it in the political climate and the economic climate, whatever. I'm just saying they're having a hard time, Andrea, dealing with women, people of color. I don't know, they're going to become the minority. I don't know. I'm just telling you, I'm trying to speak. For Scott Galloway, in the way that he's coming across. That's his whole point is to try to help men find themselves or something.

Speaker 3: 30:10

I'm sorry.

Andrea: 30:11

There's a lot going on there. I don't even know where to start. I don't even know where to start. Um, white men are doing pretty okay for themselves, I think.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:20

Uh no, there's all these black people who are taking their jobs and all these minorities taking their jobs.

Andrea: 30:28

But like I mean, uh, I don't even, I'm tongue-tied. It's so okay, but but wait, wait, wait.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:36

But before you go off, yeah, you do know that there is something that has changed over the years, like regarding it's not as easy before, right? Before white men used to be able to just, they would put on a tie and they could get a job. Now they actually have to compete with other people. That's why it feels hard to them because they have to compete with other people of color who are, if not as qualified, but probably more qualified than they are. And don't get me started with black women. Do you know what I mean? Like, I am just speaking and trying to defend Scott Galloway. That's all I'm doing and his reasoning.

Andrea: 31:20

Um, you don't believe that at all? It's not that I don't believe that. It's just like, oh, so sorry, baby. Do you want a cookie and a glass of milk? I mean, what the fuck? Are they little infants? Are they fucking toddlers that need to be coddled? Like, I am sorry. No, no, not getting marble man person. Like, yeah, this is what it is.

Carmen Lezeth: 31:49

Right. But that is uncomfortable or difficult for them to understand. And so they're walking through that maze. Look at, I am just, I look it, I here's what I'll say. From my perspective as a Black Latina woman, um, I do see that there's difficulties, especially with, I'll say with my counterparts of white women who keep thinking there is some need to overdo it with the understanding of what's happening, you know, with black women or whatever, right? There's kind of this like, now we've gone from hating black women to now thinking black women are on a pedestal. You know what I mean? And so there's that weird, like, just all we want is equality. We don't need to be, you know, revered so crazy. Like, we don't need all that. So there, I do think there's a shift because I remember growing up, Andrea, and thinking that white people were the beauty standard. They were, and that straight hair was the only way to go. And you know what I mean? Like, and oh, like people would say to me, like, Carmen, you're not really black. You're not really black. That was a compliment from them. They thought that was a compliment, you know. All I'm saying is there is a shift. Whether you, I mean, we can mock Scott Galloway all we want. There is something happening. I know. Go ahead. Yeah, um, I mean, so much trouble for this recording.

Andrea: 33:14

There is a shift. Um, there are a lot of shifts happening right now for a lot of people. Uh, and most of those people are not in the enviable position that white men are in. And I understand they might be having some fear. Okay. Um I guess I don't my my um uh my feeling about it is like just don't be a dick, right? Like it's not that hard. Be a good person, have some empathy, feel your feelings.

Carmen Lezeth: 33:58

I know, but are you not having empathy right now for the look it if you had grown up your entire life? Let's pretend you did not grow up in California, you did not grow up around people who are mexicano with immigrants, like you have a very different background than most people, okay? So let's pretend you grew up uh as a white man in Kentucky. I'm just saying, okay, or Iowa or any of these other places. Yeah, yeah. And you were always seen as somebody who was manly and smart and brilliant and whatever, regardless of whether it was true or not. Regardless. I mean, you were just always seen as look at I I actually understand that. I understand feeling like all of a sudden, now you're okay. You know what? I'll I'll I'll do it this way. When I was at school at UVM, I remember walking into my first biology class and I walked into this auditorium, and the entire auditorium was all white. There was, there was no other person of color in that room. And I remember because I walked in from the bottom, you know what I mean? Like I didn't come from the top. I had gotten lost, and I walked in like the same way the professor was. And I remember looking up, and it was like everything else in my life, right? Like when I danced or whatever, or when I was in Color Guard Jump Corps, it was always the same thing. So it wasn't as alarming, but it was it was there and it was noticeable, and I'll never forget it. I don't think most white people have ever walked into a room full of just black people, just full of people of color. And if they have, they remember it. And it was scary, or I don't know if the right, that's not the right word, scary, or it was whatever it was. It was an acknowledgement. And that's why when you see a few people who are going to like Howard, who are white or you know, Asian or whatever, it's kind of interesting to see their point of view. It's kind of beautiful because that's what we want as a world where people are fine. I'm just saying, if you have lived your entire life never experiencing what it's like to walk into a room and you're being the only one out, and now all of a sudden, everything you do every day is you have a black president, you have, you know what I mean? Like all of a sudden that must be jarring. I'm not saying you have to be a dick about it. I'm saying it must be jarring to have to now change what you thought about yourself in the world.

Andrea: 36:28

Be nice. I acknowledge that there's probably a sense of loss. Okay. And that's about the best I can do. My my my world view is not is like is is not that how do I explain it? Like there is enough. There is enough for all of us, right? Just because it was a black president doesn't mean that's a loss of power for anyone. I don't know.

Carmen Lezeth: 37:02

Intellectually, you and I get it. You you and I we we get that, but that doesn't take away from some white man in Kentucky who feels a certain way because he doesn't understand that. It doesn't, and it's changing his masculinity. I think the problem is really the definition of masculinity has changed, you know. Um, and I think more men need to understand that the reason why, like I was talking to Billy about this, like gay men, the reason why women tend to connect with gay men is because they are in touch with all sides of who they are. They're not confused. You know what I mean? It's not like this makes you masculine, this makes you feminine, and this makes you whatever. It like, and I'm not talking for all gay men, some gay men suck. Okay, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just just like anybody else, but I'm saying that that overall idea is the reason why I I tend to really have no problem hanging out with somebody who's so in touch with every single part of them. Like that would be the perfect man if he was straight.

Andrea: 38:06

Like I was in touch with him. I mean, I I um I clearly have a real problem with um coddling people. Like, okay, yeah, you've always been like that though. I know. Oh no, yes, I'm not a coddler. Like uh we all have things that are hard for us, and most of the rest of us, all of the rest of us, have to get over it and deal with it. And guess what, bitch? So do you? Like that's that's the way I feel about it.

Carmen Lezeth: 38:34

Yeah, you've never been a coddler. That's a good way to do it. Yeah, you don't really, yeah, yeah.

Andrea: 38:39

I'm not I even like I like they're grown men.

Carmen Lezeth: 38:43

So that's what Scott Galloway is doing, I guess. That's that's the rub, is the coddling and not the like I want to say man up. Like actually, like uh, but I think it's hard. Look at I want to be as sensitive as possible. I don't know. I know for me growing up, it was really hard. And it's still hard, but it's less hard because now I understand so much more about how things are not actually my fault.

Andrea: 39:10

Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 39:11

Like what where I always felt like the problem was me. Like, and I can't explain to people what it feels like to think, oh, because I'm black or I'm Latina, I'm not good enough. I don't know how to explain what it feels like to grow up thinking like, well, there's nothing I can do about it, but I'm because I'm black and Latina, so I'm never gonna be enough. Whether it's uh getting alone or trying to get a job or whatever it is, like just that's infused in your essence. And I can only imagine the reverses happening for white men. That's all I'm trying to say. Not that they don't think they're good enough, because I don't think we ever gonna get there, but that they are having a conflict with understanding they are not the be-all end-all in society right now. And I don't think it's easy for people to accept people of color.

Andrea: 40:07

They want to, but I don't think they really can do it. Yeah, I mean, I think that there is, I've said this for a long time, like it's like the the the last gasp of a dying monster, right? Like I think some of that is what what we are experiencing now. Um uh but I just I just can't excuse it. I just can't. Did you think I was excusing?

Carmen Lezeth: 40:32

No, no, no, I'm not trying to excuse you are, but like I'm just acknowledging it. Like, I just um I'm not excusing it. I think the I'm not a fan of Scott Galloway either, but I like that he's at least no one else is mentioning the problem. He may not be mentioning it in the way in which I think might be more helpful to them, um, but he is talking about it. And it's one of my frustrations that I've had with so many of my friends um who are white, who were not talking. Like, I don't need you to talk to me about what's happening with race relations or politics. I need you to go talk to your white friends. It's kind of that same thing. Like, the problem isn't over here, the problem is you need to explain that having a black president actually was not that big of a deal. It's a long time coming. And don't get me started with the woman thing. Like, you know, having a woman president that's a whole other thing, but yeah. I'm sorry. Oh, do we have to notice the time? No, just kidding.

unknown: 41:33

I'm sorry.

Carmen Lezeth: 41:34

We're all over the place today. All this to say Jimmy Kimmel was amazing, and um I I think that's what brought this up is you said that's what a man is.

Andrea: 41:43

Well, yeah, so like somebody else said that that's masculinity, right? Like that's good, solid friendship, family, love, joy, bringing your people along with you when you're successful.

Carmen Lezeth: 41:55

Yes, yes, which I'm sure, I'm sure people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg and all the like, what's the guy, Tim Basil's? Tim Basil's? I don't know what his name is. Jeff. Jeff, whatever, a billionaire motherfucker. I'm sure he brings them along too.

Andrea: 42:11

Like I'm sure they do. And not your cronies, like, you know. Real friends, right? If you have any. If you don't, that's a problem. Yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:21

So everyone's homework is to uh figure out who Scott, what's his name? Galloway is. Uh check out what's going on with Jimmy Kimmel. That's more important. Go check out Jimmy Kimmel's uh beautiful uh I don't know, it was really well done. Uh and it was uh, I think it was November 12th's monologue. And yeah, keep reading up on the Epstein files. I don't really think you need to keep reading up on them.

Andrea: 42:48

You don't need to keep reading on them. Call your friends.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:51

Call your friends, especially your white male friends. Make sure they're okay. I'm being more compassionate. I'm just saying. She's not a coddler. That is the truth, though. All right, everyone. Thank you so much. And uh remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy. We'll see you next week. Bye. That was a weird episode. Thanks for stopping by. All about the joy. Be better and stay beautiful, folks. Have a sweet day.