Money Stress, Policy Choices, and Real Relief with Dana Miranda

Prices keep climbing, headlines keep blaring, and the advice too often boils down to “budget harder.” We take a different route. Together with writer and author Dana Miranda (You Don’t Need a Budget), we unpack the real drivers of everyday money stress—policy choices, corporate incentives, and a media drumbeat that keeps our eyes on stock tickers instead of the forces setting our bills.

We start with a clear-eyed look at the political landscape and why hope can still be rational. Courts and congressional dynamics matter, and they shape everything from student debt relief to labor protections. Then we connect those decisions to your cart total and your paycheck: how tariffs move through supply chains, why companies pass costs along with newfound boldness, and how the shareholder-first mandate degrades product quality while prices rise. If you’ve felt the “inshittification” of services and tech, you’re not imagining things.

From there, we get personal. Job instability and AI anxiety create a season where savings dip, credit climbs, and retirement contributions pause. Instead of shame, we offer emotional finance: self-compassion, clear priorities, and small wins that restore energy and control. We talk about when stress spending is a signal, not a sin; what truly moves the needle (income, housing, healthcare); and how to build a simple safety plan without turning your life into a spreadsheet. And yes, we make the case for voting as a tangible financial action—because policy, not lattes, is the lever that changes the math for working people.

If you’re tired of being told your coffee is the problem, tune in for a humane, practical reset. Then share this with a friend who needs a little hope and a lot less shame. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what policy change would most improve your financial life?

Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.

Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Setting The Stakes
• 2:25 A Controversial Kind Of Optimism
• 7:15 Policy, Courts, And 2026 Hopes
• 10:55 Congress, Power, And Accountability
• 15:10 How Policy Hits Your Pocket
• 20:25 Tariffs, Prices, And Corporate Incentives
• 26:30 Quality Decline And The Shareholder Mandate
• 31:05 Markets, Media, And Misplaced Focus
• 36:20 Job Instability And Money Anxiety
• 42:15 Emotional Finance And Self-Compassion
• 48:40 Voting As A Financial Tool

Transcript

Carmen Lezeth: 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome to All About the Joy. I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, and in the house, Dana Miranda is back. And I'm so glad to have you here. I was just telling you, I'm I I had to go to work this morning and I just got back, and I just feel so out of sorts. So I'm just gonna apologize to you up front. I think um I don't know how to explain it. This conversation that we're going to have is always a hard conversation because people don't like to talk about money. But I wanted to bring you back on the show, and I'm so glad you agreed. Thank you so much because um we've known each other for a while now. You are also the author of this great book. You don't need a budget. I have read it, I keep referring to it. I've given it as a gift to one person. I, you know, I want to give it to other people too. I actually think what I love about the book more is that it emotionally is teaching me something. So I don't want to keep rambling. I just want to tell you this thing. So thank you for being here. How are you? How is your new year starting? Uh, it's good.

Dana Miranda: 1:10

It's good. I'm doing well. I feel like as wild as things still are in our world, I do feel like we're turning a corner a little bit to where we might at least be headed in a better direction. I think we went into 2025 afraid of what was gonna happen. And I'm going into 2026 hopeful for change, optimistic, truly optimistic for change and feeling a little better. Look at me. I'm like, I'm trying to stop talking, Carmen, really.

Carmen Lezeth: 1:43

Right? Look at when you emailed me and you said that, I was like, okay, she has to be on the show. I mean, I wanted you on the show anyway. You're such a supporter of me, and I just want to say thank you. I've said that before, but you are a supporter of me as a writer and you support the show, and so I appreciate that so much. But I think you're crazy about this statement that you made, and I'm dying to know what you mean by it. Yeah. So can you expand on that a bit? Sure.

Dana Miranda: 2:13

Um, and there's probably just an amount of privilege in my position, too. So maybe I'm a Midwest white lady sitting back and being like, things are looking better. The reason that I'm feeling optimistic is that, you know, I'm like talking politically, of course, with the Trump regime coming in in 2025, that we were all afraid of what he was going to do because he made a lot of horrific promises and immediately started taking steps to follow through on them. But we have watched over and over and over through 2025 how the administration bungles everything that they tried to do. Doge is dissipated at this point, it's having no effect, right? And also they are losing in the courts, which makes me very hopeful. So every everything that they have tried to do is meeting a lot of resistance, and also they're just failing to do it. Like they're they're reminding us that they're incompetent, uh, which we we always forget about when we have a break from Trump, how incompetent the administration is. So that's where the hope is for me. So financially, thinking in the money world, in my world too, 2025 was really scary because we didn't know what was going to happen with the economy. And I think we're still there. I think that's still really uncertain. And it's just been doing this weird thing for so long where it's like the economy keeps threatening to tank and destroy all of our lives. And it doesn't quite do that. Um, but we are in kind of a weird like the job market is scary. I was laid off last fall and I'm still looking for a job. So I'm like in the world.

Carmen Lezeth: 3:52

Which is why I'm confused you are supporting our show so much. You know, I mean, she Dana financially supports me on Substack, which I was shook by. Um you don't have to do that. Well, nobody has to, but I, you know, I appreciate your work.

Dana Miranda: 4:07

And so yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 4:08

Thank you. I just want to back up before you go further because I feel like you said some things that I I just I don't disagree with. First of all, I know that you are one of these people who always talks about your privilege, and I appreciate that, right? As a woman of color. But I also think at some point the it's just so blurred. This isn't even about your privilege anymore. We're all in this together now. Like this is not even about a race thing or an economic thing. This is the Trump administration has just it has just shown us where all of our flaws are in our constitution. And um I I still have faith, but it's dwindling in the American people. Like, and I think what you're saying is you still have faith that that we can get through this now that we know what we know. But I feel like I knew all along. Like I wasn't confused, Dana. I wasn't and then here's what I'll say when it comes to like student loans, right? When it comes to things that affect me personally, groceries and whatever, I'm like, I think it can get worse. Am I being pessimistic?

Dana Miranda: 5:20

Probably not. I think you're right, it can get worse for sure. And we also have to remember that there are most likely three more years of this administration before he's out, right? Like my the the at my best moments of optimism, I feel like we'll usher in a democratic um majority in 2026 and they will actually be able to kick Trump out of office in 27. Um, but that's incredibly optimistic. And uh and we've seen our legislators have the opportunity to do that in the past and didn't. So so I'm not counting on that.

Carmen Lezeth: 6:01

Um, no, so just so that the audience understands what we're talking about is the House and the Senate can be, it looks like we're going to get the House back in democratic hands. Right now, um, we are the minority, and then uh the Senate is breaking up. That it's I mean, that's really hopeful that we can also take over the Senate. I want to stress something um that I think is important for people to understand. Congress has the ability to stop all of this right now, and they are choosing not to. So every time we're upset with what Trump is doing, please know that the enablers, the Congress have has more power than the president does, you know, and they're not using it at all. So I just wanted to explain that to our audience about what you're talking about. We we have the ability to elect people into office in 2026, and hopefully it'll be a democratic Congress, and that's what you're hoping about.

Dana Miranda: 6:59

Yeah, and I think I think that's the drum that needs to be beat this year is to remove Republicans and work toward that democratic majority, because that's that's the first step that needs to happen to get this administration under control. You know, I'm not a hundred percent in support of what Democrats are doing at any given moment either. Well, all of us, I mean the same people are not at least by the Trump administration because it's politically expedient for them, if nothing else, you know. Yeah, even not necessarily because it's the right thing to do.

Carmen Lezeth: 7:29

Yeah, I think part of the problem is it's the cult like mentality that we're having a problem with. So um, but okay, how does this relate to people financially in their everyday life? Like, why are you saying what you're saying? And why does the political aspect of this matter so much to you?

Dana Miranda: 7:51

So it's important day to day because everything that is involved in our personal relationship with money is the effect of some policy decision down the line. And we don't talk about that enough in personal finance. And that's something I think is really important, even if we're not talking about politics in like the horse race thing or like a we need a democratic majority kind of thing, or who's in whatever office. It's really important to make that connection to the larger structure, uh, the larger systems, and to understand specifically that policy decisions are impacting our personal financial situations, that it's not, we aren't in the situations that we're in of like, for example, having overwhelming student loan debt and having trouble repaying that because of our individual personal decisions. We're in that situation because of how policy and culture shaped that our relationship with student loans and education.

Carmen Lezeth: 8:53

Can we even drill it down even a little bit? Uh because a lot of people don't have student loans, right? A lot of people don't. Can we talk? I mean, like tariffs. How do tariffs affect, right? Because everyone knows that Trump loves tariffs. How do tariffs affect like a regular person like me on an everyday basis? Well, I'll speak to that.

Dana Miranda: 9:14

So without having the expertise of like really knowing the details of those policies and especially not like international trade is for sure out of my wheelhouse. But I think one piece of that's really important is just how constantly absorbing this news and this information impacts our relationship with money, right? Like everybody's afraid going to the grocery store right now. And that that was the case before Trump took office because we immediately started talking about the fact that tariffs were coming, right? That was the case before the majority of the tariffs were put in place, I think in April was people were already afraid going to the grocery store, were already feeling strapped, right? Whether those prices had already changed or not, or whether the tariffs had had an impact.

Carmen Lezeth: 10:05

Um or just even understanding what that meant, because it felt like this new word, this new thing that he was pushing. And then you were having people explain that tariffs were actually a tax on the consumer.

Dana Miranda: 10:17

So it became through, you know, by way of the corporations, right? So tariffs are a tax on the corporation for importing whatever they're importing and the parts of things that they're making and selling. Um, and they pass that cost on to consumers. And I think what's what we've seen since the pandemic in particular is because there's so much awareness of those tariffs happening, corporations are really brazen with passing those costs on to consumers. Like companies always have costs and they have to decide how much of that cost they're willing to eat and how much they're willing to raise prices to sell us stuff, right? And when there's just when it's out in the ether and everybody's talking about tariffs and how they're going to raise prices, corporations are like, yeah, okay, great. Everybody's ready for us to raise prices. So they're doing that. They were doing it before their costs actually went up. The same thing happened with talk around inflation. Uh, you know, after the pandemic hit in 2020, companies were making more money, but they didn't their costs were going down. They didn't raise uh, sorry, reduce the prices for us. No, that's everything is inflated and costs more than it did before 2020.

Carmen Lezeth: 11:32

Right, because corporations are always going to take care of themselves and their shareholders first, right? So they're always gonna do what's in the best interest of them. And that's not anyone like I'm not a big hater of capitalism, but it's kind of like this idea that corporations are not always preserving themselves first is something that I don't understand why the regular consumer doesn't understand. You know what I mean? They're always gonna take care of their shareholders first. We're not the most important thing, like my ability to pay for eggs is not their concern.

Dana Miranda: 12:02

Uh not at all, right? Yeah, or to feed your children or to pay your rent or anything, absolutely. And especially as we put more and more distance between us as people, as a consumer, and the people who are making those decisions and the shareholders. But yeah, it's I think because most of us don't think like a business and we don't have that business mindset. I think people who are running business, people who are entrepreneurial kind of have that understanding because it seems very clear. You just look at what the incentive is. The incentive is to make money for the shareholders. That's also a policy decision, right? The uh rules that are in place for public corporations require them to think and to work in the best interest of shareholders, not often in the best interest of consumers, right? Their their entire um their entire responsibility is to make sure that they're not losing money for people who are investing in their companies and something at a policy level. Yeah, no, there's no morality to it, right? Or you know, what I've seen, and I'd be curious, um, because we are in of different generations, Carmen. We are, I'm older. But I have seen, you know, I'm I'm 40 this year, and I've seen in my adult life the like I mean, we have talked about it culturally, inshidification of things, and that we talk about that digitally and like social media, but overall products are being in shidified, like the degradation of quality of things because companies are have just given up on being concerned with giving us a good product. All of the effort and all of the resources they have go into selling us a product, and it's kind of embarrassing when you think from a business standpoint how terrible products and services have gotten.

Carmen Lezeth: 13:54

Right. The the so, like a great example is even just, I don't know, um like a microwave or a TV. There was a time I remember when and this is so long ago, but um, I'm in my 50s, so that's the that's the generational difference. Um, you know, there was more metal to everything, everything was heavier and it lasted. You could buy a TV and it would last you 15 years. Like I don't remember growing up us having to buy a new TV. And it's all plasticky and and it breaks and it doesn't, and I'm, you know, I'm kind of just coming up with an example, but it's kind of that thing where things are not made as well as they used to be. They're marketed in a way to be better for us or better for the environment or better, whatever. And then there may be some truth to that. I'm I'm not trying to diss that, but it's cheaply made, and then we have to keep buying it over and over and over again. You know, the whole phone thing, the the whole iPhone thing is a great example of like, especially back in the day when when phones became a thing, it was like every every year people were buying a thousand dollar phone. There's no need to, right? Right.

Dana Miranda: 15:12

Well, the technology upgrades were actually happening at the time too. Like every new version of the phone. Yeah. Generation, that's what they call it. Every new generation of the phone was better. And it's not really like that anymore. And they're still trying to sell it that way. So yeah, but yeah, they're just trying having to find other ways for those things to become irrelevant. Right.

Carmen Lezeth: 15:37

Imagine a world where they were so like if we were all concerned more about us as individuals. I can't even imagine that. And can I ask you this question? What are your thoughts on this? I'm surprised by how many people think that our finances and how we're doing as a country is based on Wall Street. Like you see that, right? Oh, the economy's doing great. It's not doing great for you, little person who's not invested.

Dana Miranda: 16:03

That is a problem, in my opinion, with media, in news media in general, personal finance media, because we report what's going on in the stock market as if it's relevant to everybody. When the vast majority of money in the stock market is held by a tiny minority of Americans. And so most of us are not being impacted day to day by the movement and the Dow and the NASDAQ and all, right? But for some reason, we all absorb that information in our lives. People will sit and watch. Well, there's a ticker at the bottom of every huge thing. Right, right. Yeah, well, that's going back to the iPhone. I was so happy when you could finally delete the stocks app that just automatically comes with the iPhone. I'm Android.

Carmen Lezeth: 16:58

I've never I've never been an iPhone. And I know there are some huge differences between both of those, but yeah. So you can you recently were able to take the ticker off.

Dana Miranda: 17:06

In maybe in the last 10 years or something, it feels recent. But yeah. So yeah, it's just this thing like stock tickers should not be part of most of our lives. Like if if you're investing the average person, it's in a retirement account. Many of us are not even doing that. Because we can't afford yeah, but watching market performance day to day does it shouldn't impact your decisions for retirement savings. So it's completely just not information that you need to have. Day to day, no one should have to be watching the movement of the stock market. It's not relevant to your life. But I suspect that psychologically, the reason that people are attracted to that is there is kind of a feeling of having some kind of control. It feels like information you should have because it's information you're being given by like major news outlets. Um, the it's the same way I think that we absorb political news that often is not relevant to us day to day and not something we can take action on. But it makes you, it gives you kind of a feeling of being in control. And so I think seeing that stock market. No, but it's a lie. Absolutely. And that's why I encourage people not to watch it. I think it also makes people make the wrong types of decisions. You know, you're trying to take control in the wrong places. Like if you don't have money to invest, tweaking things in your retirement account is like not going to give you control of your financial life, right? Um, there's you there's other things to focus on in your relationship with money.

Carmen Lezeth: 18:34

Yeah. And let's talk about, let's get into the nitty-gritty of that. What do you see that people should be concerned about tying it back to how hopeful you are? I look at I I I hope you're right. I want you to be right. Um what do you think people should be looking at in 2026 or maybe doing a little bit differently?

Dana Miranda: 18:56

So, what's happening this year? What I see, and this is really a vibes thing, but I think we're kind of running on vibes right now. But what I'm feeling is sort of feeling like what it felt like in 2009, 10 to kind of be in the recession, the sort of job loss that I'm seeing across sectors, but in media in particular, which is my industry. Um, and so layoffs are just happening, people are afraid of the impact of AI coming in, that kind of thing. And so, even though we are not economically moving into a recession, a lot of the experience that people are having, the the precarity that people are experiencing looks a lot like that. Um, I don't think the numbers are where they were in 2010. Um, but I don't watch that as well. I don't know what precarity means. I can't even say it. I don't know what precarity means. Precarity. So yeah, so it's like uh there's an instability where we're unstable. Uncertain. Um, it just feels like even if you can get a job, you're like, who knows when they're gonna take it away from me. That's what it feels like right now. And that, you know, it's being reported in the news, there's numbers, it's an interesting phenomenon to look at or whatever, but on a personal level, individually, that really impacts your relationship with money. Even if you're, you know, if you're out of a job for three months, you're able to get back in, which is, you know, being laid off is kind of more shuffling around, I think, for a lot of people than than joblessness. But that instability is changing your health insurance. It's um you're eating through savings every couple of months, you're using debt. So that's yeah, and that's what's that's what my household is experiencing right now, is that like I know I'm gonna be fine, I know I'm gonna get a job, I'll pay off the debt eventually, I'll maybe rebuild the savings, right? But right now, it's this uncertainty and it's also a pause in any progress you might be making. So at a personal level, even if we don't have this like mass joblessness or unemployment and and that kind of thing, it's we're, I think we're stalled because we're all afraid of you know what's gonna happen next. We're afraid to spend money, even if you feel, even if you're in a good position, people are afraid to make big moves because we don't know what's going to happen next, right? So I think there's a there's a feeling of just being stalled um financially and making any progress because we don't know when the rug is gonna be pulled out from under us at any point.

Carmen Lezeth: 21:34

So do you think people should be just stop making so many choices, be okay in the space that we're at at the moment? Is that kind of question?

Dana Miranda: 21:43

Yeah, and I remember you asked for advice and I didn't offer any. So yeah, it's but to deal with that. What's the conversation the next year or so is going to look like because of the uncertainty that we face under this regime? What does that mean? Um the biggest thing I would say, because this is always my message, is to understand that that's what's going on and to deal with the emotional side of it by not blaming yourself. And to also understand, like maybe you will use through some of your savings. Maybe you'll pull money from a retirement account, maybe you'll accumulate more credit card debt than you normally did. Um, maybe you won't build savings as fast as you have in the past. The circumstances are different, and it's okay, like we're in a season where that those things are probably gonna change.

Carmen Lezeth: 22:41

Well, I think that kind of is the crux, and you could yell at me if you want, but the crux of your book, um, you don't need a budget, is this emotional connection we have with money. And I think I'm I'm gonna tie it into something else. I spoke to another friend of mine the other day who was having a tough time with everything that's happening. Um, and they live in a red state, there were a blue dot in a red state, one of those things, and it's just overwhelming. And there was this feeling of some sort of shame in feeling the way you're feeling. And I was like, I I feel the same way. I've cried on my couch too. I've and I think that's kind of what you're saying is like what's right, what's happening right now, especially when it comes to our money, we're going to have to make some changes and don't beat yourself up about it. Absolutely. Don't don't be so mean to yourself about it. All of it is not under your control. You got to make some choices. And those choices, maybe 10 years ago, would have been a different circumstance and you might have made it different, but we have right now. I mean, is that kind of a good idea? Absolutely.

Dana Miranda: 23:46

And and you're right, that is largely the crux of the book, too, is and that's why it's important to understand that systemic impact and the systemic connection to personal finance. Like we kind of keep macroeconomics and microeconomics as separate fields. Um, but they're they're so intertwined. Like what's happening at a macro level, what's happening in the stock market does impact us down the line, right? But just not in the way that people on a daily basis basis. Yeah. It impacts what corporations are doing, which impacts, you know, how they're hiring, how they're paying us, how they're treating us, kind of thing. And that impacts us day-to-day. Like it's this more of a downstream sort of effect. But um, yeah, so there's a lot, like I would largely encourage people to give themselves grace this year because our relationships with money are just really weird right now. Like we're we are sitting in constant fear of the r being pulled out from under us, and that's a really tough situation to be in. Um it's we can understand that we're in a difficult and uncertain time, but it can be really hard to make individual financial choices when from the personal finance space, the advice that you're getting is just to continue to buckle down. You know, I even see, and this is what really bothers me as Father's during the pandemic, too, during the recession, that like news media, personal finance media will acknowledge, oh, the inflation is high, the price of groceries are high, housing has gone up or whatever. Here are five ways to deal with it, and it's all, you know, budget and spend less money and restrict more and and all of these things that like none of that is the issue, right? The the one thing that you that we should be doing is changing policy. So the only thing individuals can do is vote for different people. Um but it's none of it is say that again.

Carmen Lezeth: 25:42

Please say that again because I think it's important. Please say that again.

Dana Miranda: 25:46

I will, and I actually I had somebody respond because I said this in a chapter in the book, um, and someone responded and and felt much more negative about it. But I think on an individual level, the one thing that we can absolutely do to make a a change is to vote and vote for the right people. I think most of the people listening to this conversation, right? Vote for the people who are going to make the changes that are uh helping working class people and and you know, and not corporations and and businesses, companies. Right. So, but that's you know, that's at an individual level. When we're being told like what you need to do is pay off your debt and and budget harder and be more disciplined with your money, right? Those aren't actually realistic things we can do often to change our financial situation. Um, but one realistic individual, in a lot of cases, very simple step that you can take is to vote.

Carmen Lezeth: 26:45

Um you don't have to say you kind, you do way too kind. I'm gonna I'm gonna reinterpret this just a little bit. All right. When you are being told over and over again in all different types of media that the problem that you're having with not being able to pay your bills is your fault because you didn't budget well, because you didn't save, because you bought a, you know, you say this, the the your latte or whatever, you spent six dollars on a coffee or whatever, and that the problem is you, that you have not done the right things. That's that's bullshit. All of that is bullshit because you know what makes it easier to have a budget and to change your budget? You know what? Money. When you have money, you can budget your ass off. Like you can really make some major changes. And I know that as a person who went from having absolutely nothing to then having tons of money to then not having it again. But when you have money, you're able to make some different choices and really change up things, you know? And and so I love when you say this because I I feel like for I don't know who reached out to you and and had a negative, I'm curious what what was it that they were trying to say?

Dana Miranda: 28:01

It's so there's a lot of cynicism about the impact our vote can have because people think no matter who you vote for, people get into office and they don't make a difference. And in a lot of cases, they're not doing the right things once they're in office. That is true. Um, but it and and that is on them. Like that's a systemic problem, that's an institutional problem with the parties and and um the way, you know, the way that elections are funded and all these things. So that's all again, not an individual blame. Um, but if we take that simple step of going out and voting, that changes how the institution operates because they think they can get away with it because we're not paying attention. They think they can get away with it because we don't vote anyway. So they don't have to listen to right.

Carmen Lezeth: 28:48

It's like chicken egg thing, chicken egg thing. It's like around like I also am trying to tell people you need to pay attention to your local, your local people, your state, whatever's happening in your county, in your state, be involved. And I don't know why people are so resistant, but I also think that's the way it's been designed, right? If if we're just apathetic and we don't do anything, then people can go do what they want. But I I agree with you. I I think you should vote. Um, I I'm not saying don't have any responsibility for your finances. I'm just saying stop being so cruel to yourself about every single thing that happens. And it took me a long time. It did, it took me a long time to understand that who I am as a human being has nothing to do with my bank account. And the way that I learned it was because I had met so many wealthy people who and I worked for them, and they were the nastiest, ugliest human beings I'd ever met. Not all rich people, but yeah, some of the ones I work for. And I realized like, money don't make you classy, money don't make you beautiful, money does not make you a good person, money gives you choices.

Dana Miranda: 29:57

Yep, yeah. And being a good person doesn't mean you'll make money, and being a bad person doesn't mean that you won't be able to well, you and I would be billionaires right now.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:07

And here's the thing because if it was just about being good people, and then because we don't believe in billionaires, I'm just speaking on behalf of you, we wouldn't actually be building 100%. Yeah.

Dana Miranda: 30:16

I know I see that all the time when I see how things are being run. I I have that joke with my partner all the time. You know, he'll be like, if I were president, and I say, You could never be, you could never get into that position. Or, you know, if I'm running whatever corporation, I'm like, you could never, because you you could never make the kind of choices it takes to get into that position and and have.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:37

That's so weird. Okay, let's see if we can talk about some fun things. I don't think it's gonna be fun, but we're gonna try to do some rapid fire uh questions. Okay, I don't know. Let me just see here. Rapid fire. Okay. All right. What's a money myth you'd love to retire forever? And you can take your time with it.

Dana Miranda: 30:56

There's so many to choose from, my goodness.

Carmen Lezeth: 30:58

Oh, oh, okay.

Dana Miranda: 30:59

Um a money myth. I well, to go back to investing, I think one of many money myths that I like to retire is that the idea that if you just start saving now, everything's gonna be fine. I see that in personal finance a lot where they say no matter how much you can set aside, just start doing it because if you you're gonna build the habit or whatever, whatever the idea that we think, but you're not going to retire on saving a dollar a week with the with an investment app, you know? Really with an investment app. Yeah. I know there's a lot of benefit to building different savings habits and all of these things, but if it's you know, if it's a choice between having the the comfort and luxury in your life today that you deserve to have, and trying to force yourself into some savings habit that isn't actually going to benefit you all that much in the future, you know, that then it's not good advice.

Carmen Lezeth: 32:05

Right. And this is what people, some people have um said about your book that I'm completely, I think they're missing the point. You're not telling people to just throw it all to the wind and walk away and just do what you want today. That is not what you're saying in your book. So every time I read some of those, I think your your book is great. And again, I want to say it again, you do not need a budget. Um thank you. I think it's great also because it's making people have the conversations that they don't normally have, especially people who maybe weren't feeling like they could have the conversation, you know.

Dana Miranda: 32:44

Yeah, that's absolutely my favorite thing when someone says they read the book and then they encourage their partner, husband, wife to read the book, um, or that they had, you know, that people are having these like kitchen table conversations inspired by the book, which is incredible.

Carmen Lezeth: 32:59

And some people like I I and again, I I your your book is well reviewed, and that's not my point, but because I do read some of the other stuff, I'm like, you're missing the point, you know. Um I actually think it's healthier to deal with the emotional aspects of who you are in relation to money, as opposed to keep blaming yourself. And and I really do think that's the crux of your book is to start getting us to detach ourselves to this, like, I'm a good person if I'm making $200,000 a year. And then somehow I'm a horrible bad person if I lose my job or I only have $30,000 a year now, you know? Um okay. What's a financial rule you personally ignore? Personally, because I know the ones you talk about. Sure.

Dana Miranda: 33:45

Um, I don't save for retirement right now. Um in my last full-time job, I wasn't contributing to a 401k. Um, I may in the future, so it's it's not a I'm I'm a never say never person for sure. Um, but I don't prioritize saving in a retirement account um because I have other things to do with the money and I have a limited amount of money that comes into my life.

Carmen Lezeth: 34:10

And and you feel okay about that?

Dana Miranda: 34:13

I do. Yeah. I'm nervous and it's not, you know, it's not something I advise necessarily because everyone has to decide what level of risk they're willing to take. And the level of risk that I'm accepting is that at some point I won't be able to work to earn money. Um, there's, you know, I because of the industry that I am in, that I'm a writer for a living, um, I have a better chance of being able to continue to work into old age than if I worked in construction, like my dad does, right? Like your body's just gonna break down eventually. Um, but at any point, that could be taken away from me too. So I do understand that I have that risk.

Carmen Lezeth: 34:51

Um, if it makes you feel any better, I have the same risk too. And my whole game plan is I have six godchildren and they better take care of my ass. That's all I'm saying. That's my game plan.

Dana Miranda: 35:00

My my sister has five children. I'm sorry, four children. And I think that's more than she and her husband will need in old age. So I'm gonna go. I can borrow a little bit of that. Um, a little bit of that.

Carmen Lezeth: 35:14

Back of my head.

Dana Miranda: 35:15

Like I can't. I'm also hoping for policy change that is better, you know, so our country is better at taking care of people by the time.

Carmen Lezeth: 35:21

Yeah, I mean, I think that and that's a great point, right? Is if we had the ability to understand that our vote matters and if we started changing the way in which we think about older people, people wouldn't fear getting older because they don't know where they're gonna end up. Right. You know, because they don't have enough.

Dana Miranda: 35:37

Yeah, it's a sad state.

Carmen Lezeth: 35:39

Um let me see. What's the first thing you do when you feel financially stressed? I or are you beyond that now? What's that? Or are you beyond that now?

Dana Miranda: 35:51

Oh no, not at all. Absolutely. I I hear that from a lot of like financial writers and therapists and and planners and things like that, but no, we all experience financial stress. Um, and I, you know, I work as a writer. I got laid off last fall, so I absolutely do. Um, often my response, um, like thinking about dealing with my layoff and thinking about that is I tend to spend money more when I have financial stress than when I don't. Um, and so I'm that's something I should dig into like psychologically and see where that comes from. But I do remember years ago, um, I was working as a copywriter for Marie Forlio. And we took, and um, so a lot of what I was writing, not a lot of it, some of what I was writing was about the idea of like manifesting and and that kind of thing, uh, law of attraction, that kind of thing, which is not something that I like uh that I subscribe to whole cloth or anything like that. But I do remember there being this idea of um giving money away, sending money out or whatever, right? If be generous is sort of a way to convince yourself of abundance, kind of like knowing that the money will come back to you. Um, so I think that I take that. Um I think I take that approach a little bit. And also I'm stressed, and buying things is like a short-term salve. So there's also just that of just stress.

Carmen Lezeth: 37:18

I don't think you're I I mean, I think that's kind of normal. I tend to like so this is my thing. Like when I don't have any money, I tend to give more money to like people I see. Like, I don't know, I don't know if I necessarily buy things. Um, but like you said, invest in things. Like all of a sudden I'm giving a $10 to a homeless person when I know, but to me, I'm like $10 isn't gonna fix the problem. $10 isn't gonna make me find how I'm gonna pay my rent. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's what it is.

Dana Miranda: 37:50

Yeah. So I think like, well, I'll go out to eat, and this $50 is like wasn't gonna make the difference. I need a job, so who cares? Right. So yeah, I think that's um, and I it wasn't like that in the past, but I went like you, like you explained, you know, like I had very little money, I made more money, I've made less money, and so I've gone up and down. And so having been in a situation of making enough money to be really comfortable and understanding those dynamics, I think has been helpful with that, of knowing like actually this little bit of money is not going to make the difference for me. I'm gonna have dinner tonight so that I'm happy, so that I have the energy tomorrow to look for a job.

Carmen Lezeth: 38:28

But here's the here's the trick though, because I I don't think this is it took me a long time to do this. You got to be able to do it without the guilt. You can't feel guilty about it because then you're totally defeating the purpose of enjoying that moment of sharing. Like I, you know, I always tell my friends, if you need anything, just call me. Like whether I have the money or not, I will find somebody who does. You know what I mean? Because I I just believe in that. Like there are people who can help other people. And if we're in an emergency situation, I don't want somebody to be like, I can't ask for help. Like, that's why my mom died. I always say that. My mom died because she didn't ask for help. She was way too young and just had a normal thing. She had asthma. And it's like, but she didn't want to, you know, because there was all the stigma with welfare or whatever and blah, blah, blah. And so that's how I see it as a little kid, right? Still. And that's why I'm the way I am. I'm like, if one of my friends needs something, just call me, whether I have the money or not, I will call on some people who owe me a favor and we will figure it out. Um, but it is that kind of thing. You can't have guilt because you decided to go out to dinner and enjoy whatever with your family or by yourself or whatever it is, or you've got a massage, like, because then that defeats the purpose.

Dana Miranda: 39:38

Absolutely. Yeah.

unknown: 39:40

Yeah.

Dana Miranda: 39:41

Let go of that shame. Think about the bigger things, the bigger rocks, right? Um, and and exert your influence over those as much as you can, but don't sweat the small stuff.

Carmen Lezeth: 39:54

Yeah.

Dana Miranda: 39:56

I think that's true with money. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Carmen Lezeth: 39:58

I think it's true too. I will say this. There is someone who is a big-time CNBC uh Wall Street person who I know. Um, I'm not gonna say his name, he's not anyone I ever worked with, but I I met him when it was back in Twitter days and we had lunch together, and he was gonna invest in my book and all this bullshit, whatever. It was all bullshit. But, anyways, he did say something to me that stuck with me forever, forever. Because I was saying to him, God, you have so much money. Like, what is that like? Like, did you always have money and whatever? And I was all like, teach me how to be an entrepreneur. Yeah, I love that. Something to me that stuck forever. And he said, Carmen, you know what? You will always be able to make money, but I will never be able to have the kinds of friends and connections that you have. Never. You like, and I thought about that. Like I thought about the importance and the way he said that, that our connections and who we are to each other is so much more important. And he spent so much time making money that he, you know, divorced, doesn't talk to his children, whatever. And I'm looking, I'm not trying to say it's either or. I'm just saying I will never forget that. And I think that's part of it too, is I am gonna go have that dinner, even though I lost my job, and I'm not gonna feel bad about it because I know I can always make money somehow. Money is not the defining issue of who Carmen is.

Dana Miranda: 41:24

Right.

Carmen Lezeth: 41:25

Yeah.

Dana Miranda: 41:25

And that's that's a belief that you have to cultivate because it's very scary. And I've had those moments too over the last few months as I've been looking for a job of feeling like I'm may never be able to make money again, right? The industry has changed too much, the world has changed too much, I'm not as attractive on the market as I thought I would be. Like I've had all of those thoughts. And um, you know, and you have to regularly bring yourself back around to it. And I think it's that is where it's helpful for me to yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 41:56

You need to stop doing that. You need to stop talking to yourself that way. You know that, right?

Dana Miranda: 41:59

I mean, not to make this session now, but here's what I'm gonna jump to. Well, thank you for the no, it's good to hear that point blank. Like, obviously, of course I know that's true.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:06

Yeah, yeah, but we all do it. Even a successful writer who has a great book. Um, what's your website? I forgot.

Dana Miranda: 42:14

Um, if you want to learn more about the book, it's you don't needabudget.com. And then my newsletter is at healthyrich.co. On Substack.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:22

Yep. Oh, no, no, that's the website. But the the that URL goes to the Substack.

Dana Miranda: 42:28

It goes Healthy Rich on Substack.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:30

Um can you say it again though for the audio? Because I spoke over you.

Dana Miranda: 42:34

Yes, it's healthyrich.co, or if you're on Substack, just search for Healthy Rich.

Carmen Lezeth: 42:40

Okay. And then the website for you do not need you don't need a budget is you don't needabudget.com. That's right. Okay, cool. Let me see. Okay, what's a small financial win people should celebrate more often?

Dana Miranda: 42:56

A win. Um, I would say um any moment where you didn't feel stressed about money and and you thought you should have, that's a little weird. But what's coming to me is this experience when I had been really struggling as a freelancer for years and I got my first staff writer job and I was making a salary for the first time in years. And the company sent me to a conference um and you know, paid for the hotel and the flight and everything like that. But the hotel at, you know, they booked it on the company credit card, and then the hotel asked for my card when I um checked in for incidentals or whatever. And the hotel mistakenly charged my debit card for the room for like five nights or whatever. And I got back and, you know, talked to the it was a small company, so talked to the CEO about it right away. And um, and he's like, we'll take care of that. We, you know, we can reimburse you on your next paycheck. But then he was like, Can you wait till your next paycheck or do you need us to send you the money right away? And I said, nope, I can wait till my next paycheck. And that was an incredible feeling to know, like, yeah, this is my money. I'm gonna want it back, but I'm not desperate right now. And that was the first time in years that I was like, no, I need, you know, didn't feel like I absolutely need the $600 back right now. You know, it didn't take my bank account negative. I was gonna make it through the week and a half till payday. So yeah, anytime, and there are smaller instances of that too, right? Like you go to the ATM and you can take out $20 worth of $500. When I was in college, I was there was an ATM on campus, you could take out $5 at a time. And I usually had to go to that one. So if I could go to the one and take out 20 and cover the fee without overdrafting, that's right, that was a good victory too. I think that where if you have experienced financial precarity, you know, that those little things are are really important and and to celebrate that because I think sometimes you experience that and you think that's the norm, and then you punish yourself, shame yourself for any time that's not the case. But it's yeah, I think acknowledge that that you have have challenges and that those moments are really special.

Carmen Lezeth: 45:18

Yeah, I think for me, one of the things I remember is I remember calling one of my best friends because I wanted to buy some sandals, but they were $90. And they were they were sandals, they were just velvety or something. This is years ago when I was working at my big time company job, whatever. And I was like, this just feels wrong. And she's like, if you love them, just like she was almost annoyed, just buy them. I was like, okay, like I remember that being like, wow, I really got all um like I would never do that now. Like I've grown, like I understand now. If I want to spend $90 on stupid shoes or whatever, and I haven't, I'm gonna buy them, you know what I mean? But I just remember that being like a win. Like, I can actually call someone and tell them I'm gonna buy sandals that are like nine dollars, uh $90. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dana Miranda: 46:06

Yeah, you have those moments too. And you you have to cherish that, you have to understand it. Ales to remind you of the privilege that you've gained too. So you you know, you never forget what it was like to live on $12,000 a year or whatever.

Carmen Lezeth: 46:22

So you can always survive that if you have to.

Dana Miranda: 46:26

They do. Yeah, absolutely.

Carmen Lezeth: 46:29

I don't think you or I would ever forget though.

Dana Miranda: 46:33

I haven't, I don't think, you know, and and I continue to keep um my lifestyle has not gotten a lot more lavish as I've made more money. It's usually traveling more, so I don't have these like ongoing additional costs. It's very easy to downsize my life when I make less money, or if I, you know, get laid off or something like that happens.

Carmen Lezeth: 46:54

I want us to end on something joyful. You know what?

Dana Miranda: 46:58

Okay, yeah.

Carmen Lezeth: 46:59

I'll just put it that way. Um, what do you see in the future in 2026 that might be hopeful, joyful, something to look forward to?

Dana Miranda: 47:10

Yeah. Um, well, since yeah, we started with politics, I think that the election this year is something to look forward to because it's an opportunity for us to all get out and give a very clear rebuke to the Trump administration and to the Republicans who've been enabling him. I think that's gonna be really important. Um, and I'm looking forward to that victory. And on top of that, you know, we had Mom Donnie in New York City. I think there's gonna be a lot more socialist and leftist victories around the country, too, on the tail of that. So that can be very exciting for folks, for people who are looking for working class policy. Um, so that's exciting. Financially, I think I think people probably have challenges ahead. Like I said, that it's it's gonna be kind of rough water. So what we can look for are the moments of joy where we allow ourselves to enjoy our lives in spite of the ways that our politicians and corporations are trying to sort of keep us down and keep us small, that we can be big and joyful in spite of that.

Carmen Lezeth: 48:19

I think that's fair enough. I just want to say one last thing though. I think, you know, saying socialist leftist or whatever is bad because we should all be for working class. Like, I think that's where the whole mess is like people have taken words and have put something upon them that isn't true, you know.

Dana Miranda: 48:44

Yes, yeah, yeah, those are dirty words for some people, but it is true, working class politicians and people who politicians who work for working class people, regardless of the people.

Carmen Lezeth: 48:53

Yeah, we should want to take anyways, but that maybe that's a whole other conversation. I don't know, but I get annoyed by that because if you say socialist, people get all upset and it's like you don't even know what the word means.

Dana Miranda: 49:05

Not you, I mean people absolutely that is true, and and and that's yeah, that's by design too. So absolutely politicians who work for the people. That's what we're doing.

Carmen Lezeth: 49:17

Yeah, work for the people, and we make sure we vote. I feel like what we got out of this is you need to vote. Somehow this became very political. Spend money when you want and get out and vote. And also buy this book. You don't need a budget by Dana Miranda, Miranda. Is your last name Latino?

Dana Miranda: 49:36

It's not. I can I can give you the history if you want. If you look, I'm kind of sad.

Carmen Lezeth: 49:41

I'm like, it's not. I thought we were like, I know I'm also I'm disappointed too.

Dana Miranda: 49:45

I uh so it was my middle name. Um, and then I got married and I got divorced, and I was keeping my divorce name for a while, didn't want to go back to my maiden name, and so I took Miranda as my as my middle name, but it was originally uh my great-grandmother's middle name, and it was German. So it's got German roots, but yeah, I visit Puerto Rico and people get very disappointed when they look at my name and then look at my Midwest white face.

Carmen Lezeth: 50:14

Well, you know, is I don't know anything about my father at all, right? It's one of the things I'll never know. Um, but the interesting part about it is the the rumors when I was growing up was that his last name was Miranda.

unknown: 50:28

Oh.

Carmen Lezeth: 50:28

Isn't that funny? So it's kind of interesting. I mean, it's just a weird, you know, it's Smith for all I know. I have no idea. I don't want people coming out to me telling me they're my father. So thanks.

Dana Miranda: 50:37

But um spiritually, I I claim that anyone whose name is Miranda is my cousin. So I feel a connection to Louis Manuel Miranda now and and now you.

unknown: 50:47

I'm so excited.

Dana Miranda: 50:48

Okay, cool. It was mythical anyway, so let's take it.

Carmen Lezeth: 50:52

Um well, I'm so glad you were here. I know you'll come back. I'm not even gonna ask you to come back. Um, and I know that Rick and Cynthia would love to see you, so maybe you can love to see you on Friday Night Live at some point. But thank you so much for being here, Dana. I appreciate you. Um, I appreciate you a lot, a lot. So thank you so much for all that you've done for me. And writing-wise when we first met and just giving me confidence really changed my trajectory on who I am as a creative person, too. So thank you so much for that. And and stop sending me money right now. I love you, but stop it. Um, all right, everyone. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. And remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy. Thank you, everyone. Bye. Thank you. Thanks for stopping by, All About the Joy. Be better and stay beautiful, folks. Have a sweet day.