The Truths We Weren’t Taught

On this episode of Culture and Consequence, Andrea and I sit down for a wide‑open conversation about the state of American life — from healthcare and wealth to history, race, and the stories we were never taught. What starts with a simple question about GoFundMe and medical bills turns into a deeper look at how we’ve been shaped by propaganda, what we choose to believe, and why truth still matters if we want a better future.

We talk about the Olympics, politics, education, and the uncomfortable moments that force real growth. We name the lies, honor the history that’s been erased, and reflect on what it means to stay awake in a country that often rewards denial. It’s candid, it’s layered, and it’s the kind of conversation that asks you to sit with the truth — even when it stings.

Resources mentioned: 

Frederick Douglass Family Initiatives:

https://fdfi.org/

Kimberly Jones: How We Win:

https://youtu.be/llci8MVh8J4?si=rBOMZB8JWm25xjo9

History Channel’s Abraham Lincoln Documentary: 

https://www.historychannel.com/

Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share.

You can now watch the livestream version of the show on YouTube at @CarmenLezeth

You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.

Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Carmen: Okay. Hi everyone. 

[00:00:02] Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. No, I just think you have to talk louder so that it projects.

[00:00:08] Andrea: I'm a low talker

[00:00:10] Carmen: Okay. All right. Yeah, we're gonna go with that. Me, me too. And I'm also very like quiet and like submissive, and I'm an wait. I'm an introvert.

[00:00:22] Andrea: Oh God.

[00:00:25] Carmen: How are you, Andrea?

[00:00:28] Andrea: I am. Okay. I dunno, I don't even know. How do I even answer that these days? I'm fine. I'm fine.

[00:00:39] Carmen: I'm fine. So I was trying, the reason why I'm like, so I was trying to figure out a way in which I could show you an Instagram reel on here, but because. Anyways, I'm going to try to do it. The problem is, I guess Instagram and TikTok and all of these places have made it super hard to share. They're res and I'm like, I, I totally get that, but don't you want people to promote, to go back to, you know what I mean?

[00:01:11] Like, it doesn't make any sense. Anyway, so I was, that's what I was fussing with when you saw me. Like, and I'm never late and I'm like, oh my God. But I'll tell you what happened to me this morning that

[00:01:21] Andrea: You still weren't late by the way, but it's fine.

[00:01:24] Carmen: are we late?

[00:01:25] Andrea: No, I said you were not late. Like I was hanging out for a few minutes, which was fine. That gave me a chance to like check the headlines on my phone 'cause I hadn't really looked at anything. And you popped on like one minute early and you're just like, I'm late, I'm late, I'm late.

[00:01:40] Carmen: Because for me, being late is being on time.

[00:01:43] Andrea: I know

[00:01:44] Carmen: I'm always

[00:01:45] Andrea: for me being late is like. I missed it by 30 minutes

[00:01:51] Carmen: So you're actually on black people's time, right? Like you're actually

[00:01:56] Andrea: Latin time, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah,

[00:01:59] Carmen: That's so funny. I am. I'm always 15 minutes early, so if I'm just making it, I'm like stressed out, but I was just a little flummoxed. Is that the word? I dunno. Like, is that Jewish flummoxed?

[00:02:11] Andrea: don't think so.

[00:02:12] Carmen: I think it's like New York something.

[00:02:15] Anyways, it doesn't matter. It's all about race here at, uh, culture and Consequence. Okay, so let me tell you what happened. So this morning I woke up and I saw, uh, that somebody that I used to work with back when I worked at the company I worked for, where I was a partner, blah, blah, blah. I'm not gonna give them any more airtime.

[00:02:38] Uh. Had a GoFundMe page and I was confused because I know that he has recent, first of all, I didn't know what happened, so I guess like six months ago he had a medical emergency and uh, his family is trying to recover through this. And so, and he seems to be doing fine, but he has a GoFundMe page and the reason why this is so important is I know that he is or was up until the accident that he had or whatever.

[00:03:03] Is working a full-time job and easily making six figures easily. 'cause I know the position he has or had. I also know they have top tier insurance. He even says that in the GoFundMe page, says. Even. Even with top tier insurance, this has been a burden and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and all the other costs, whatever.

[00:03:26] Okay. But that's not even the worst of it. That here in the United States you can be making six figures, be an executive at a company, have top tier insurance, and when I was at that company, we paid a hundred percent for not just the person working but your family. So he does top tier. Okay.

[00:03:45] Andrea: Nobody does that anymore.

[00:03:47] Carmen: Nobody does it anymore.

[00:03:48] But even still, I'm pretty sure that when it comes to benefits and the package that he received, it's still at that level, top tier. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm, there are things I'm sure they do that they didn't do back then, but this is somebody who is making easily good money. Okay? And that wasn't what threw me.

[00:04:10] I being the cheesy person, first of all, I have no money to donate to him and I'm really bummed 'cause I want to, but I really have to be careful with my money right now. But normally I would've easily been like, here's a thousand or whatever. Like I, you know me. 'cause I would be like, oh my God. And I like him.

[00:04:25] If I don't like you, I ain't giving you shit, but I don't care. I don't care about your children, whatever. We ain't friends. But I just felt so bad and I'm like, I just can't. So I go in and I look at all the names and how much people have given. Is another reason why when I give, it's anonymous. I do not put my name on there.

[00:04:42] But

[00:04:43] Andrea: Same

[00:04:45] Carmen: Andrea, what pissed me off. It's no one's fault.

[00:04:48] what bummed me out about what I was looking at, I mean, he knows a lot of people and people gave what they could, and so I'm not making that judgment, but I know some of the people that gave on that list, and it was like $50.

[00:05:06] $200. These are people that at one point, I don't know what everyone's circumstance is, but I know these people could give more money, at least back in the day when we were all flush with at least some money. I don't think these people are cheap. I'm like, it showed me. First of all, how many people he knows and so many, I mean, he's almost at his, you know, amount that he wants to achieve and people have given really small amounts and it's like thousands of people and that is so cool.

[00:05:37] That's not my point. My point is the state of our country today that people that I know even myself, cannot actually give more than 50 bucks, 20 bucks, because nobody has that kind of money to give. I was so upset after looking at that because we are the richest country in the world. Right? Are we? Are we

[00:06:07] Andrea: So

[00:06:07] Carmen: at least one of them?

[00:06:08] We're supposed to be, but actually we're not. It's the top, I think 2% in this country that are the richest people in the world. The rest of us are just mere peasants.

[00:06:21] Andrea: Well, I mean, it's it, yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. It is really sad and it is a statement about sort of where we are that, like you said, even people who presumably have some disposable income. Don't really feel like they can give, but also this like, you know, healthcare by GoFundMe is really just like, I mean, I think truly, I know in fact people in other countries are like, what in the hell?

[00:06:52] You have to go and beg the people that you know for money in order to just get basic lifesaving healthcare. And, and I mean there's all, like I said, there's all kinds of things to say about that, but one of the arguments against Universal healthcare is like, we don't want our tax dollars to go for this, that, and the other.

[00:07:14] Okay. But our disposable income is going to go fund MES for people. And maybe it's not the same people who are complaining, but like, it just, none of it makes any sense. and it's. Yet another thing that's immensely depressing about this country.

[00:07:30] Carmen: It is depressing. I wanted to show this video and this isn't even one of my favorite senators and she is from Massachusetts. But, um, let me see if I can do this because, uh, this is what I was trying to work on.

[00:07:43] It is. Part of this whole situation, and it kind of puts it in perspective. 

[00:07:49] ERAS tour was the highest grossing concert tour of all time making over $2 billion. Wow. Now, does that seem like a lot of money to you? Oh. It is, but not compared to the tax handout that Donald Trump gave to Jeff Bezos and Amazon last year. Let's just take a quick look at the numbers. Starting off. The amount of money Donald Trump and the Republicans gave to Jeff Bezos and Amazon as a tax break is right around here, and how much the S tour made is right around here.

[00:08:26] That's right. Trump gave Amazon four times as much in tax breaks in one year than the entire ERAS tour May, and there are a lot of big numbers right below that too. This is roughly Kim Kardashian's entire net worth. Right around here is how much LeBron James made over his 23 season courier. Wow. And here is how much the typical American household makes in any given year.

[00:08:58] Yeah. You can't even see the line here. Put another way. It would take the average household about a hundred thousand years to make as much money as Donald Trump gave to Amazon last year. So you might be thinking, whoa, how did Amazon get such a sweet deal? And the answer is simple. Donald Trump took money that we as a country give to lower healthcare costs, and instead he handed it over to giant corporations.

[00:09:26] That's how Amazon is now paying 87% less in taxes this year than last year, 87% off. You know that is even better than most Black Friday sales. So when you file your taxes this year, just remember Amazon and Jeff Bezos are getting the sweetest deal of all thanks to Donald Trump.

[00:09:48] 

[00:09:48] Andrea: Yeah.

[00:09:50] Carmen: Okay. So I, after seeing that whole thing with the person I used to work with back in the day, I scrolled and I'm like, what is this?

[00:10:02] Like what is happening? Yeah. Thoughts.

[00:10:09] Andrea: It's just, it's sickening. It's sickening. And um, you know, the optimist in me feels like. We are headed, I don't know how optimistic this is, but we are headed for our, you know, French Revolution off with their heads moment. Like this cannot continue. This cannot continue. You know, you hear this all the time.

[00:10:35] There are so many more of us than there are of them, and that's true. And I have to believe that at some point we will say enough. Because it's absolutely sickening.

[00:10:49] Carmen: I think what's really weird though is that they have us believing that our enemies are people who are poorer or just as poor as we are, are, are. That's the problem. Like, like when you think about the genius of. Donald Trump was able to do, and I know, I know. I just said Trump and genius in the same sentence.

[00:11:15] That is because seriously, the more I think about it this morning and the more angry I am, he really has his flock of people believing the problem is immigrants doing landscaping.

[00:11:29] Andrea: It's, it's a, it's the typical authoritarian playbook, right? Like find someone else that's vulnerable that you can. Um, channel people's anger toward so that you can be over here, uh, you know, robbing the country blind, you know, with your cronies and whatnot. I mean, it, it's, it's not new. It, it's, you know, I guess we could call it genius, um, in its own way.

[00:11:59] Right. Um, it's definitely working.

[00:12:02] Carmen: It's cruel. I mean, it's cruel and it's bad genius, but there is something really interesting that he has. I mean, look, and I'm not gonna get back into the whole bad bunny thing, but it That's a great example. Like just or, or I don't know, have you seen the latest. Fucking RFK Junior in the fucking sauna hot tub thing.

[00:12:24] Working out with Kid Rock. Ew. Okay. I am not playing that.

[00:12:31] Andrea: Don't even wanna hear anymore about that. That's I need

[00:12:34] Carmen: No, no, but let me just explain why this is so interesting. There was this video, RFK Jr, without a shirt on, and jeans kid rock with shorts on and no shirt. So one of his songs that I don't, I mean, I looked up the lyrics and I'm like, uh, okay. But I don't understand a thing the man's saying. They're in a, I mean the memes that are coming out are so funny 'cause it's like, you know what in the, you know, back water, fucking, uh, what was that movie with, um, um.

[00:13:11] It wasn't River Phoenix, but uh, broke Back Mountain. Like people are saying what in the broke back mountain is going on here? Like, it was so funny. But they're, they're working out. He jumps into a cold plunge in jeans. They're, wait, here's the thing, it was actually promoted, the reason why it's a big deal is it was promoted by the Department of Human Services, right. It's on the website and it's supposed to be promoting health and fitness and how to work out, and it's so, it's so gross. But here's the thing. That whole bro macho, I am a man. I'm this, that whole group, the same group that can't afford their own healthcare premiums and their one medical accident.

[00:14:08] Oh, that's who are like, oh my God, this is so great. It's awesome. It's mind boggling to me.

[00:14:17] Andrea: The men are not okay. I dunno what

[00:14:21] Carmen: unserious as a country. We really are. We're so, we're so,

[00:14:25] Andrea: like everything that you just said. I want completely wiped from my brain.

[00:14:31] Carmen: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I know, but I mean, all of it is so bad. All of it is so bad and it's, I, I know there are moments of joy, right? I know there are these moments like, you know, again, I'm gonna keep, I'm still in my bad bunny phase. I'm sorry. I just, that music now I'm like the queen of Bad bunny.

[00:14:56] I know every album and every song like, but I really am heartbroken as to how it's not even about the cult part anymore. It's Americans from the United States are just completely down the rabbit hole and stuck it like their head is in the mud at the bottom of the pit.

[00:15:24] Andrea: I am super, super bummed out about how fucking stupid everyone is. I mean, that's really what, like just, man, come on. Come on.

[00:15:39] Carmen: Yeah.

[00:15:40] Andrea: Like, I missed all of that stuff. Thank God. I did happen to come across the, uh. Interview where the head of our United States system of healthcare talked about how he snorted cocaine off of a toilet seat,

[00:15:59] Carmen: Mm-hmm. Same

[00:16:00] Andrea: I was just like, I stop, stop.

[00:16:05] I want off this fucking ride. I can't do it anymore. Everything is so dumb.

[00:16:09] Carmen: No. And Jay, you have to see that video. Now. I

[00:16:12] Andrea: I don't.

[00:16:12] Carmen: it to you. I'm telling you. You know why? Because it's the same guy, right? RFK, junior. And I think he just embodies kind of the whole administration, like even today. Um. The board, I'm doing fucking quotes. The board of whatever the White House ballroom people approved Trump's ball.

[00:16:37] Of course they're going to, he appointed them all. And it's like the ballroom. There's no need for it. But he's spending all of this money and they're pretending that all the money is coming from private entities. Yes. All the people, all the billionaires like Amazon, they have the money to spend to keep curing favor with this motherfucker.

[00:17:01] And

[00:17:01] Andrea: why they got the tax break.

[00:17:03] Carmen: that's why they got

[00:17:04] Andrea: 'cause we're essentially giving Trump money.

[00:17:09] Carmen: We are so unserious.

[00:17:11] Andrea: know

[00:17:12] Carmen: It's so,

[00:17:13] Andrea: yeah,

[00:17:14] Carmen: okay. And we're gonna go to war with Iran on Sunday because Oh, yeah.

[00:17:19] Andrea: know we had a date. That's

[00:17:21] Carmen: I'm, I'm, I'm going with a couple of other people with the idea that the whole reason why we're not at war right now with Iran is because the Olympics are going on and the Olympics, the ending ceremonies are on Sunday.

[00:17:35] And you know, there's a whole, uh, like all of our ships and everything are right there waiting. They've all been mobilized. And what is that for? Exactly? What is that mobilization for? We would never be there if it wasn't for some sort of activity we may be doing. Uh, but let's just see here. I wrote, Officials have described the buildup as provocative and concluded that their own live fire naval exercises, these are Iranian officials, have now set up their naval exercises in the strai of Horus, to show their sign of strength. This is what I love about men. My

[00:18:25] Andrea: boys are not okay.

[00:18:28] Carmen: What?

[00:18:29] Andrea: I said the boys are not okay.

[00:18:31] Carmen: The boys are not Okay.

[00:18:32] They're not okay at all. 

[00:18:35] I got nothing else. I got nothing else. well, what, what, do you have anything you wanna share?

[00:18:42] Andrea: I mean, I've just been watching the Olympics and being sick and.

[00:18:48] Carmen: Billy got upset with me because I don't watch the Olympics. I don't like Winter Olympics. And he kept sending me, uh, videos of ice skaters that I should be really impressed with. 

[00:18:58] Uh, the guy who's doing the black, the the black flip, same thing because she, um, and um,

[00:19:09] Andrea: I haven't been the ice skating, but anyways, go ahead.

[00:19:12] Carmen: I, none of it, the luge does nothing for me, although I think it's kind of funny. Um, skiing, whatever. I just don't care about the, I don't care about Winter Olympics.

[00:19:22] Andrea: I don't either, but I put it on and like one of the first days the kids were like, oh, the Olympics. And I was like, okay, let's watch it. Right? And so they have curling on, okay, so I'm watching this and I'm like. This isn't a sport. They're like sliding a rock across the ice. What are we doing here? You know?

[00:19:43] But it was on, so I was like, all right, well let me find out what this is about. You know, I'm on my phone.

[00:19:48] Carmen: This is your first time knowing about curling. Are you

[00:19:50] Andrea: I mean, I had heard of it, but I didn't really know what it was about. So I start looking it up and reading all the rules, and now I'm totally, totally, totally into it.

[00:20:01] Carmen: Oh my God.

[00:20:02] Andrea: I was like, should I start curling?

[00:20:05] But you know, I can't. I can't. It's on the ice and I don't do cold, so that's out. But I will still watch it. Um, and then,

[00:20:13] Carmen: hear about the one cheating because they poked it or something?

[00:20:15] Andrea: I haven't really been watching the men that much, but yeah, I did. I did hear about that. And then I'm watching the hockey also, so

[00:20:23] Carmen: Yeah, I honestly, it just, it's never been a thing, and it was so funny because Billy was so kind of. Like disappointed. He's like, don't you notice the grace and the dance? You know? 'cause that's our thing, the dancing. I'm like, here's my thing about ice skating and I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say. My problem with ice skating is, to me it all looks exactly the same.

[00:20:42] Like I, I can't count how many flips they're doing or turns, and I'm always like. Why doesn't someone turn the other way? Like, why do they always turn the same way? And people think I'm crazy, but they always turn the same way and it just, it's a turn up in the air. It does nothing for me. So the back flip was cool, but then I found out it was done a long time ago and she was discounted.

[00:21:03] And again, I'm so tired of hearing. How we can't just give black folk their due. Why is this country so hung up on not embracing the beauty that our country actually is by just admitting the wrongs we've done? I, I don't even get it.

[00:21:23] Andrea: I hear you girl. Yeah, I remember hearing about this. Uh, what's his name, the boy, the man, whatever, doing the back flip. And I was like, and I remember I was like, wait, didn't that girl get disqualified for that like several Olympics ago? And now it's like that's all anyone can talk about is this guy doing the back flip?

[00:21:42] Carmen: And, and she, and she did it anyways, even though she knew she would be, uh, whatever. I don't know her name. I don't know enough about all of it, but it's just, it just kind of, it goes back to the whole thing of racism, you know what I mean? And people get so frustrated, like, why, why does everything have to be about color?

[00:22:01] Because clearly it's not affecting you. And I need to remind you why it

[00:22:05] Andrea: well and like. I'm sure a lot of people would prefer that it not be like they stop making it then, you know what I mean? Like it's not, black people aren't making it about race. Y'all are making it about race.

[00:22:18] Carmen: because you won't acknowledge the truth. Exactly. I mean, you know, again, I'm gonna go back to Bad Bunny. Even this whole thing like just arguing and fighting about like now the whole thing is, is he, he was auto two. He was recorded. You know what y'all love Whitney Houston's fucking rendition of.

[00:22:38] Whatever it was. She's saying the Star-Spangled Banner, that was fucking prerecorded you dumb asses. When you are in a live, you know what? I just hate how everyone is a fucking expert at everything. Instead of just being like, you know what? I'm gonna enjoy this. There are things I don't know about. And you know what?

[00:22:56] I don't question it. Like if there's a, like a whole astronaut thing happening and they go off into space, I'm not like, you know what, Uhuh, I'm not gonna question

[00:23:07] Andrea: how I would've done it.

[00:23:09] Carmen: You know what? I know there's something fishy there. Like I just enjoy what is presented and I stay in my motherfucking lane. It just, I just feel like we're at a really hard crossroads and I don't know, I'm like sitting just, I'm just waiting for somebody to tell me what to do.

[00:23:32] I dunno what to do anymore.

[00:23:35] Andrea: So, yeah. Fun fact. Um, you know, I've been on my like documentary thing lately, right? Watching all these documentaries.

[00:23:43] Carmen: She's not doing Hallmark anymore. People just documentaries now.

[00:23:46] Andrea: I'm now on the History Channel, um, documentaries about the various presidents, and I was watching the Abraham Lincoln one the other day.

[00:23:55] Carmen: Interesting.

[00:23:56] Andrea: Um, and guess who should pop up?

[00:23:58] Someone you actually know. I had a six degrees of separation moment because Kenneth Morris was being interviewed like throughout the show about Frederick Douglas. Uh, so that was, I was like. Wait, I know him. I mean, I don't know him, but I know someone who knows him.

[00:24:16] Carmen: Well, it's so funny to hear. I mean, his name is Kenneth Morris, but it's Kenny Morris. Right. And um, and he is the, I don't know how many times, but great-great-great, great, great, great, great, great grandson of Frederick Douglas and I used to work for their nonprofit and yeah,

[00:24:33] Andrea: Yeah. So

[00:24:35] Carmen: that's the connection we're gonna go

[00:24:36] Andrea: on the side. Yes. But so. I don't know how I'm gonna bring this all together, but, you know, obviously it was, you know, a lot of the documentary was about the Civil War and the buildup to it, and, uh, Lincoln's response to it and all of these kinds of things. And, and thinking about how clearly divided and violent, um, that separation that division turned out to be.

[00:25:04] You know, uh. As I said before, I'm optimistic that we are at a moment or getting close to a moment where things change, but I am not optimistic about how that happens. I do think that it's, you know, we're already experiencing violence and I think that we will experience more and it's probably not gonna be, you know, it's, it's not, it's gonna be ugly, I think.

[00:25:30] Carmen: You know what, w while we did bring up Kenny, let me just also offer for the audio, 'cause I'm gonna put it down at the bottom. If you wanna learn more about Frederick Douglass and the lineage you should check out, uh, it's called, you know, they changed the name, but it was the Frederick Douglass Family Initiatives, I think is the new name.

[00:25:47] But it used to be the Frederick Douglass Family Foundation when I was there.

[00:25:51] Andrea: Yeah, I think that's what was in the thing when he

[00:25:54] Carmen: Yeah, it might have been older, but they also have a great new book that everyone should read. I have a copy of it and, um, but yeah, we might as well promote good stuff, you know, people doing good things and it's a great organization, a wonderful organization.

[00:26:08] Uh, so I'll, I'll tag and put some information in the bottom if you wanna check out, uh, that page. I'm sorry, I just need to pull goodness

[00:26:15] Andrea: No, no, no. It was, it is good. And I think, you know, he was, Frederick Douglas was an extraordinary person at an extraordinary time, who I think, you know, was. Very, it seems like very influential with Lincoln and um, but so

[00:26:30] Carmen: But you know, Andrea, if, if, if you were to talk to, and, and I say this with my full chest, I know for a fact if I were to pull 10 random Trump supporters, they would not be able to tell you who Frederick Douglass is.

[00:26:45] Andrea: Oh yeah, for sure. You don't even, it doesn't even have to be Trump supporters. Most Americans wouldn't know Frederick.

[00:26:53] Carmen: I'm gonna say if I were to pull 10 Democrats women showed them a picture of Frederick Douglas, they would be able to name him.

[00:27:05] Andrea: Maybe the majority of them would, I'd be willing to bet they would not be able to say what is significant about him.

[00:27:17] Carmen: I think we should do a man on the street thing and see what.

[00:27:23] Andrea: Like pictures. What do you, who is this? What's his name? What do you know about him? Oh my God. I think that would be so depressing.

[00:27:29] Carmen: but I think that's also because, and it, it goes back to education. We do not embrace our true history. If you are not understanding this by now. There are so many people in this country, in the United States who have contributed to the growth of this country, and they've never been mentioned, talked about, or fully embraced.

[00:27:54] Jesse Jackson just passed away. When was it? Like two days ago or something? Three days ago. A great man has who has done so much for this country, passed away. And thank God there were people like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. But again, it's like Jesse Jackson isn't just for black folk, it's for the United.

[00:28:16] This is what kills me. Frederick Douglas isn't just about black folk. It's about all of us. Bad Bunny wasn't just about Latinos, it's about all of us. That was the whole point. You know what I mean? It's gonna be a while. I'm gonna keep bringing everything back to bad buddy. It's gonna be a few weeks. I'm sorry.

[00:28:36] I apologize. It's not gonna Yeah. But, but that's part of the problem. And you know, we can easily throw the word racism around, but it's also just this breath of, uh, that's not the right way to say it, but the education of our country. Just not knowing things, not understanding things, not having, can you imagine if you were a little kid and you were learning about, uh, Frederick Douglas, or you were learning like for real, real, you know?

[00:29:09] Uh, but we're not really taught those things. We're not taught that in a deep way. We, none of our history really is that in depth. It's always about how we won. It's always about how we won. This is what we did. This is what we won. That's it.

[00:29:25] Andrea: It's Propagandized, um, you know, which I think is not unusual in, you know, around the world, but, um, it's,

[00:29:33] Carmen: no, no, no, no, no, no. But it should be because we as Americans in the United States pretend that we're that shining city on the hill and we're not like everyone

[00:29:42] Andrea: yeah, I mean, that's what I was gonna say. Like, it's not unusual around the world, but we, you know, like to say. You know how we're about all of these things, but we're just as propagandized as anyone else.

[00:29:56] Carmen: I am so sad. I think this is a boring, sad conversation There's no uplift. I mean, I'll still put it out there because you know, I want Ken to get some love. I dunno, since she brought that up so organically, I just.

[00:30:14] Andrea: I, I mean, I literally was like.

[00:30:17] Carmen: I, I haven't seen that.

[00:30:20] Andrea: Um,

[00:30:21] Carmen: What, what, what episode was it? Like, what was it about? Do you, you'll have to

[00:30:25] Andrea: there's like a, I think it's like a three part documentary about Abraham Lincoln just called Abraham Lincoln. It's like two hours

[00:30:33] Carmen: Yeah. I'm not watching that.

[00:30:35] Andrea: It's great. I'm watching the grant one now,

[00:30:38] Carmen: I know, I know you are obsessed with the strangers things. Look it, I'm fine watching those, but not like on purpose, you know what I mean? Like not on purpose, like I know.

[00:30:48] Andrea: other way would you watch them?

[00:30:50] Carmen: I'm just saying like if I happen to be scrolling and you know, then I'll watch it, but I'm not gonna sit

[00:30:57] Andrea: Do you remember what it was? Okay. Like, okay, so I have a very specific memory of like being a kid in school and the teacher would bring in the projector with the thing, right? And you would watch, you know. Butterfly or whatever, like caterpillars doing the cocoon and turning into butterflies or some sort of history thing or whatever, like were you into that?

[00:31:19] Carmen: No.

[00:31:20] Andrea: Oh God, that was like my favorite thing.

[00:31:22] Carmen: Yeah, no, look it, I'm like, yeah, no, no, no, no. It's not that. It's just like for me, it's not entertainment for me. It look, it, I, we need to be educated and I will do, I, like, I will read and I will do what I need to do, but I also don't want to sit and watch something that is so. Actually, I'm, I'm thinking out loud now, but this actually goes with my whole frame of mind.

[00:31:48] Like, I don't like watching horror films, right? Like Cynthia and I have these conversations back and forth 'cause she's so adamant that they're funny. They're great. I don't like anything that. For entertainment purposes is going to inflict more sadness and pain in my heart. Right? It's the reason why I don't like period pieces.

[00:32:08] I don't wanna watch period pieces and pretend that all's okay when the truth of the matter is. I know where I'd be in that. And I think that's what happens when you start watching things that are like documentaries. It's such truth, right? There's such a truth through to it that it, it makes me sad. So. If I have time off or time to spend watching something, I'm not like, let me watch something that I'll be educated in.

[00:32:32] You know, lemme watch a documentary. I'm like, let me watch Star Trek next generation. Let me watch some fantasy romantic Hallmark bullshittery, or let me watch. I mean, we, we love. During Christmas time only though clearly that's what we've been told by Andrea. Those are the rules. I'm sorry. But, but you know what I mean?

[00:32:52] Like, for me, it's like when I do have time, like for example right now, um, we have to watch all these movies for SAG because we're doing the awards, right? 'cause I vote during sag. It's been so hard for me to watch 'em because I, all the topics are so. Heavy. And as I've gotten older, I'm less likely interested in just watching something because it's good theater.

[00:33:18] I want it to make me happy at the end.

[00:33:22] Andrea: Well, that's fair. That's fair. I mean, I, I think that I, that's the way I feel about some, like, I guess I consider these edu, you know, they're like educational,

[00:33:32] Carmen: are. Yeah.

[00:33:32] Andrea: right? I mean, and they're propaganda too. Let's, let's be totally clear, like they're definitely propaganda, but I can recognize that.

[00:33:40] Carmen: Would you say that about Ken Burns? Really?

[00:33:43] Andrea: For sure, a hundred percent.

[00:33:45] Um, it's American propaganda, like, look at how great we are. Yes. And he's looking at it. I, I would say with, uh, as clear a lens. A pretty clear lens. But it's still American

[00:33:56] Carmen: But does everything have to be propaganda? Just because it looks at you in a good light, does that

[00:34:02] Andrea: Not necessarily. No, I

[00:34:04] Carmen: well, that's where I'd have my beef, I guess. But go ahead.

[00:34:06] Andrea: Um, so for my, like, for my entertainment, I guess I agree with you, but like I look at these things as like, I would like to know more about that. I don't know, maybe as much as I would like to, or I don't know certain nuances of this, so I'm gonna go ahead and, and watch this.

[00:34:21] Like

[00:34:21] Carmen: No, and I am not sitting here pretending that I know everything about Presidents. I do not. but I did read the autobiography, what wasn't an autobiography of. Even, I know that sounded stupid. Um, I, I have, what's his name? I have all of the, all of it. He writes all of the autobiographies. He did the one on Einstein. I read that one. Lincoln, uh,

[00:34:48] Andrea: I dunno who you're talking about.

[00:34:49] Carmen: I'll write it at the bottom. Um, and I think also. I'm not sitting here pretending that you shouldn't. I think everyone should.

[00:34:57] I think that would be an easy way for people to become educated, but I, uh, but I think, you know, we, we all do it in doses. I think for me, it's also been really hard to, after, George Floyd was murdered and killed, and, black Lives Matter had all of, you know, they, they were doing all of their, protesting and.

[00:35:19] If there was a lot of education that happened there for me that, uh, really put me off on the United States because that's when I learned so much about Black Wall Street and, Tulsa and all of these different places. Right. And I got. I got really disenchanted with my Americana love of this country that that's what broke it for me. I mean, the killing of a of a black man has been something that's been in our purview for a while, and that was already painful, but learning things because of that and the way I had to learn it. Made me so disgusted with my own country. Why wasn't I taught all of this in all the schools and I went to Catholic school, I went to one of the quote unquote good schools.

[00:36:23] Why didn't I learn about all of this? It made me so sad, and then I realized white people don't know about it either, but they don't wanna know about it. Like, you don't wanna know about it. And I'm like, why? Why, why?

[00:36:42] Andrea: Because it hurts. I don't wanna look at it. Right. I mean, that's, that's why.

[00:36:47] Carmen: so then the fight about the Confederate flag down south becomes a whole different mirror. Right? It becomes a whole different thing for me. Right. This isn't about you honoring your people who fought. It's like you are doubling down on hate. Like it took on a whole new thing. And I think that's the other part of it too.

[00:37:07] It's like the more I know about this country, the more I hate that we don't want to learn it.

[00:37:18] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, ignorance is bliss, right? That's, that's where the saying comes from. Like it's, it's just a lot easier to walk through life and be like, okay, everything's good if you don't know shit.

[00:37:32] Carmen: But why do you want to walk around as a citizen of this country, somebody who supposedly is so patriotic and loving and not actually know the history and embrace, like that's the part I don't understand. Like why would you have pride in something you don't know nothing about?

[00:37:53] Andrea: Good question. I can't answer that. I don't know. I dunno.

[00:37:58] Carmen: Am I being illogical? Like I don't?

[00:38:03] Andrea: I think it's just easy for people, right? Like create the fantasy of what this is and they hold onto that and then they can, you know, rah rah and flag wave and whatever. And if they don't ever have to look at what it actually is, then there's no cognitive dissonance for them.

[00:38:23] Carmen: Okay. I know, but it's wrong. Okay,

[00:38:25] Andrea: I know.

[00:38:27] Carmen: Okay, so you, you and I, we've always been kind of a little bit, I think we're more closer now as far as what we believe in, but I was always the person that had an American flag on my car, right. Had a little sticker. I was very proud of our country. I would never go and protest.

[00:38:42] I was like, I'm never gonna protest. I think I went once with you somewhere, and I was like, no, I'm not comfortable. I don't like crowds, which I don't, I really don't like crowds. I don't wanna go to Disney either. You know what I mean? But there was also a part of me that was like, you know what? No. I have faith in this country.

[00:38:57] I have faith in this country. And then I learned it the hard way or the saddest way after George Floyd was killed in murder. I'm gonna keep saying that over and over again. It, it hit me like a ton of bricks and I was like, I cannot be proud of this country when the lie is so in my face. Like, and it's not that I didn't believe other people, I, I, I didn't know.

[00:39:24] A lot of us didn't know what we didn't know. And that's what makes me sad. It's, I'm, I'm disappointed 'cause I actually think I would have pride in the United States if we could. Actually acknowledge what we've done and then take the stepping stones to move forward.

[00:39:46] Andrea: Well, yeah, I mean, that would mean some level of accountability and, and, uh, desire to learn and be better. That's, that's what it comes down to. There's no desire to learn and be better. We're just going to keep continuing this cycle.

[00:40:08] Carmen: it's not sustainable. It's because it's not sustainable. You, you can't keep living a lie. You can't keep, especially when the cracks of the truth have come out. You can pretend all you want that the real problem in our country are Latinos and people who've come here who are brown and black and looking for a better life.

[00:40:30] When that was the whole point of the country, that was whole point. We are a nation of immigrants. Like that is who we are. And this weird idea that you are going to keep, like being like this. No, no, no, no, no. They didn't do it the right way. My parents came here through Ellis Island.

[00:40:53] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of where we are, right? Like we're at this. Boiling point where, as you said, the cracks of the truth have become these, you know, giant things that we can't ignore anymore. And people are like, no, no, no, no. Put a lid back on it. And it's just not possible. And so that's the struggle.

[00:41:18] Carmen: But why would, okay, so this, okay, I'm being, I'm totally straight up asking a question, why would you wanna put a lid on the truth when the truth could actually make you feel better?

[00:41:29] Andrea: I don't think people believe that it would make them feel better.

[00:41:33] Carmen: But why not?

[00:41:34] Andrea: Dude, I don't know. I can't get into the mind of these fucked up individuals like, I don't know, but.

[00:41:40] Carmen: But wouldn't like, like if you knew something was a lie in your life or you didn't know, and then you realized, oh my God, this is the truth. Now I can deal with it, wouldn't you then have a better life? Because it would be honest.

[00:41:57] Andrea: I mean, a lot of people, yes. I think we both know of people in our lives who would much rather believe the lie and just go on about with no change. They just literally can't handle, like this is going to look and feel different than what I'm comfortable with, so, no,

[00:42:20] Carmen: I guess I wanna believe that people are better than what they actually are, and that's always been, I guess, my problem. I don't know. I don't laugh.

[00:42:28] Andrea: no, I, it's, I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like, yeah, that's, it's lovely that you wanna believe that.

[00:42:35] Carmen: Okay. Just to put this in perspective, Andrea has always been the realist between us and you know, has always mocked me for being okay. Not

[00:42:43] Andrea: I have it mocked.

[00:42:44] Carmen: Okay, but you were in your way not

[00:42:49] Andrea: Yes.

[00:42:55] Carmen: Wow.

[00:42:57] Andrea: Have you come around a little bit closer to my point of view

[00:43:01] Carmen: I am so editing this so that I look good, and you did not even think you said that. Wow. Wow. I came to your point of view because given irrefutable evidence of what I was wrong about, I then had to swallow my pride and ego and say, you know what? You are right. I can do that because I want to live a life that is truthful and honest and on point, and I don't wanna be in a, in a haze.

[00:43:37] Andrea: You are a model for what people should do. We.

[00:43:47] Carmen: Okay.

[00:43:50] Andrea: I know. I mean it, I truly, in my heart of hearts, I'm, yes, I'm messing with you a little bit, but like, yes, people should be able to learn things and look at them and be like, I was wrong about that.

[00:44:05] Carmen: Yep,

[00:44:06] Andrea: Now I'm going to move forward with that knowledge in a different way.

[00:44:10] Carmen: yep. And I'm gonna learn more. I'm gonna try to learn more and, and, and, and reflect back. Reflect back. And here, here's the other thing though, that's really important. And this isn't to like one up you or whatever, but kind of No, it's not. It's not. But here's the thing. It didn't matter how many times you told me or how many times you kind of tried to insinuate whatever it had to happen the way it happened, and it happened because I was watching, and I forget her last name, but I'll put the clip here.

[00:44:39] Kimberly, she was the woman that spoke. They caught her and she was during Black Lives Matter, and she was talking about, they were talking about why are you looting your own area? Why are you, you know, messing all of, uh, target and all the stores here. This is your own community.

[00:44:57] And she went off on everyone and it became a viral video. And that's when I learned about. Black Wall Street and the massacres. And because she talked about it, she talked about it in that viral video, and it was profound. And I was like, wait, what? What is she talking about? Black people had their own communities where they were doing what?

[00:45:20] Wait, what? And then of course, once you go there. You end up going down the line of other things that have happened in this country. Like once you see one moment and you realize that you were wrong, and you are like, wait a minute, now I have to rethink everything. It's kind of hard not to, it opens up a domino and it's a good thing.

[00:45:43] Like, I'm glad, I know I'm not upset about it. I mean, I'm, I'm upset at our country, but I'm not upset about becoming a better person because of it.

[00:45:54] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, look, I, I think what you said there is really important, right? And, and maybe a lesson for a lot of people like myself who are like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Right? Like, it doesn't. You can't lecture or scold someone into believing something different, right? They need to have that catalytic moment, and it probably needs to be organic.

[00:46:21] It's not necessarily something that you can create, but that catalytic moment is created. Through knowledge and education, right? This woman, I remember the video you're talking about, I don't remember her name, but like she educated you

[00:46:37] Carmen: She educated a lot of people.

[00:46:39] Andrea: right? And that turned something on in your brain was like, wait a minute, what?

[00:46:44] And that going back to sort of the theme and what we started with, like, you've gotta talk about these things or you can't, you know, and not in a luxury scoldy kind of way, but like. about this. This is something that is going to be helpful for you to understand.

[00:47:00] Carmen: Right, and, and I look it, I just wanna be clear too, I wasn't like some conservative Republican before this. That's not what was happening. Okay. No, not at all. But I was definitely more center and

[00:47:13] Andrea: there were nuanced differences in our

[00:47:16] Carmen: and I still

[00:47:17] Andrea: and there still are.

[00:47:18] Carmen: look it, this is still not. Your grandmother's Republican party. This is not the Reagan Republican party and not that we want it to be, by the way, I was never that person either.

[00:47:28] But I think now I can't even listen because I see the Bullshittery so clearly. So when I do listen to Trump or I listen to whoever I happen to be listened to, you know, this gnome chick or whatever, I don't care. I am disrespecting her on purpose. Um, I. Can so easily see the bullshittery or even if you listen to, you know, senators that once were thought of as being respectable.

[00:47:57] Uh, I know Andrea's like they're Republican now, but I, you know, there used to be a time where I could listen to and I'd be like, but now I see, especially because so many Republicans have. What's the word? They've just given over all of their power. There's supposed to be a checks and balance. There's supposed to be an equal part of this, um, branch of government that we have.

[00:48:22] And, and they're not doing anything to stop what's happening and what's happening is bad if you haven't figured that out yet. It's bad and it's getting

[00:48:30] Andrea: Really, really bad on so many levels.

[00:48:33] Carmen: Okay. And on that note, yeah. So yeah. Yay. Hope you all have a great evening now. Well thanks for doing this, Andrea.

[00:48:44] I'll take it out. I apologize.

[00:48:47] Andrea: It's.

[00:48:48] Carmen: Um, and I know you're not feeling well, I can tell, uh, but I appreciate you and yeah, everyone remember at the end of the day, it still is all about the joy. So Bye everyone. Bye.

[00:48:58] Andrea: Hi.