The Truth About Introverts, Extroverts, and Why Myers‑Briggs Gets It Wrong

In this episode of Carmen Talk, Carmen breaks down the real story behind the Myers-Briggs personality test and why it isn’t scientific. She shares her own experience being mislabeled as an introvert as a kid, explains how the test became a corporate marketing tool, and clarifies why most people are actually ambiverts. Carmen also talks about how old beliefs can stick with us and why it’s important to question what we were taught. This episode encourages listeners to rethink labels, trust their own experiences, and stay curious about what’s actually true. 

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER:  As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast.  Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance. 

Transcript

[00:00:10] Hi, everyone. Welcome to All About the Joy. I am Carmen Lezeth, your host, and this is Carmen Talk. I was in junior high, and we had to take a personality test, I remember taking the test and being nervous about it. And after the test was over, you were given those four letters that told you whatever it was about your personality.

But for the purposes of this conversation, we're gonna stick to the introvert versus extrovert portion of those personality tests. And just for clarification, those tests are usually called Myers-Briggs. That's what they're called today. But what I learned in doing some research for this spot today is that even back then, when I was growing up and going to school, [00:01:10] the official Myers-Briggs test was a really expensive test, and it's most likely my poor little Catholic school would not have paid for that.

But there were a lot of other tests that were put out there for so many organizations that mimicked the same ideas behind the Myers-Briggs test, and they were probably called Myers-Briggs as well, the results. Um, so I remember taking the test. I remember, uh, getting the results, and then I remember getting yelled at by one of the teachers because they said I lied on the test.

What happened was is it came out that I was an introvert, and clearly from everyone's point of view, I was not an introvert. And so therefore, the conclusion was that I lied. And I remember feeling so bad. I remember feeling... You know, because y- when you're a kid, you're just a sponge. You know what I mean?

You just... You, you take that all in. [00:02:10] And they made me take the test again. Um, I remember the counselor. I had to take the test again, and I took it in her office by myself, and the results came out exactly the same. End of conversation with the Myers-Briggs test, right? So it imprinted on me, uh, because the things that were said about me, especially because I was a performer back then.

So I was an extrovert. There's no way I could be an introvert. Uh, you must be lying. So the inference there was that being an extrovert was a bad thing and being an introvert was a good thing, at least when it came to me. That's what was being told to me. And, you know, back then I had other things going on in my life.

Um, but it did stay with me for a long time. And when I got older and started going to interviews for jobs or, you [00:03:10] know, I would... Every time a company would ask me to take a personality test, I would not take it, and I would just not even bother because I realized if a company is going to judge me based on whatever my answers are, no matter how hard I try to answer them truthfully, I'm not gonna get the job anyways.

As I've gotten older and done more thorough investigations, um, I have learned so much more about the Myers-Briggs tests in general and all the other tests that kinda follow the same path. But let's stick to the Myers-Briggs 'cause that one is a fascinating story. Before I start telling you where Myers-Briggs came from, let me share with you that so many organizations, so many scientific, um, organizations and communities do not consider Myers-Briggs a valid nor scientific test to be used in any way, shape, or form.

And let [00:04:10] me read to you some prominent names that you will know and what they said about the Myers-Briggs tests. The American Psychological Association, the APA, the APA has repeatedly stated that MBTI, which is Myers-Briggs, has poor reliability and validity and is not used by serious psychologists. The Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology, which is sometimes called SIOP, they explicitly recommend against using MBTI for hiring or evaluation because it does not meet professional testing standards.

National Academy of Sciences, they reviewed personality tests and concluded MBTI has no predictive power and does not hold up under scientific scrutiny. Harvard Business Review, Harvard Business Review has published [00:05:10] multiple pieces explaining that MBTI is unscientific, inconsistent, and not evidence-based.

The British Psychological Society, they classify MBTI as not suitable for occupational selection or assessment. Psychology Today, they've published numerous articles explaining why MBTI is popular but not scientific. I could go on and on. There are so many scientific places that do not recommend nor use MBTI on any kind of personality testing for individuals So what's the origin story of Myers-Briggs?

Because once you know this, you're going to have a different take on what it means to be an introvert and an extrovert. This is the part that's gonna blow your mind, um, and it's the origin story, so let's talk about it. Katharine Briggs [00:06:10] was a mother and a writer, and Isabel Myers, her daughter, was a mystery novelist, right?

They were obsessed with Carl Jung's book from 1921 called The Psychological Types, and in this book, they were able to make notations and turn around and come up with a list of questions. Now, here's the thing that's really important. Carl Jung himself said that these categories and these types were only meant to be his speculative ideas.

They were not meant to be a test. They were not meant to be anything other than his opinion. But they ran with it. They took it, and they made all these questions. They shared it with their friends and their family and their neighbors, and they refined the questions, and then they came up with these types.

Fascinating, isn't that? I bet you didn't know this. Okay, so [00:07:10] the reason why this is so interesting is why it became so popular. Now, they marketed it to companies. This is where, you know, whatever you wanna say about them, this is the brilliant part. They marketed it to companies during World War II in order to help put women into jobs and place them in the correct place, and that's how this became such a big deal.

When you are able to be labeled as a thing, so you, you're an introvert. I can put people who are quiet and deep and thoughtful in one group and put all the other extroverts over here, and they're supposed to work better. That makes it easier for you to place people when you label people a certain way.

But the truth of the matter is, and you know what I'm gonna say, most people are somewhere in the middle, and that term is called [00:08:10] ambivert. Ambivert is where most people sit. 70% of the population are ambiverts. But that's why it became so popular, and it was a marketing... It still is a marketing and advertising behemoth.

Is that the right word, behemoth? I don't know, but it's huge, is what I'm trying to say. Every year, they make about $20 to $30 million. And here's the crazy part. That's not including all the other stuff. When you include corporate, and consulting, and life coaches, then it becomes a billion-dollar industry.

Myers-Briggs. I think what's really important is to understand why people should feel more comfortable about not being either/or. That, to me, is [00:09:10] the bigger, more important part of this conversation. Being an introvert has always felt a really safe place for people to be. It is seen as being deeper and thoughtful.

It's been associated with being reflective and, um, emotionally intelligent. And the truth is, being an introvert has really little to do with that. You can be an extrovert and be all of those things, too. But that's what the subconscious labeling has done. And so a lot of people will misinterpret things like depression or anxiety or just needing space in order to, you know, take a break 'cause you've had too much, as being introverted.

A great example of this is using, uh, someone like Michael Jackson. People argue back and forth whether or not he was an introvert or an extrovert. The truth is he, [00:10:10] he was an ambivert. He had to be an extrovert in order to live the life that he did, the way he got up on stage, right? He fed off of the crowd.

He was able to kinda... But he was probably also just somebody who needed a break, right? We ebb and flow. He had the paparazzi after him all the time. He was scrutinized by the media all the time. His fans were after him all the time, so he needed a break. We all sometimes just need a break. That doesn't make you an introvert.

It makes you an ambivert. We flow between both of these on a regular basis, and that brings me back to the test I took when I was just a kid. 'Cause here's the bigger problem with the Myers-Briggs test, and this is probably exactly what happened when I was a kid. Depending on how you're doing on that day, depending on how you're feeling and what you're needing in that day, you may [00:11:10] be 51% answering questions that are introvert, and 49 of those questions may be extrovert.

But the test will label you an introvert just based on that one day, not understanding the ins and outs, ebbs and flows of how we function as human beings. And I think that's a really important part of this. There was also the subconscious part of this where being an extrovert was a bad thing, right? You need people, you need adulation, you, you, you need to be around people all the time.

You can't do anything alone. And I'm not saying that that's what they were saying, but that was what was implied to me as a kid because I lied about my personality test because I wanted to be an introvert. I did not. So the other reason why I think this is such an important conversation to [00:12:10] have is not just to understand where Myers-Briggs comes from.

It's not just to kind of understand that we're probably more ambient. We're most likely, most of us are ambient. It's probably really hard to see someone who's just an extrovert or just an introvert. They're probably far and few in between. But here's the interesting part that I think is really great.

And this is what I hope you get from this. You can call yourself or label yourself whatever you want. That's fine. Whatever works for you is what works for you. But please don't think that that is based on science. It is not based on science. So that's number one. The second thing I want to stress is that things that we grew up believing, things that we were taught were not always correct.

Sometimes they [00:13:10] were just wrong. And just because people make money off of stuff and just because people have billion dollar profit or whatever, they're making all of this money or they're billionaires doesn't mean that they're right. I can't emphasize this enough. I say this every time on my Carmen Talk.

Like you have to turn around and really do the research to know things. And now that it's at your fingertips, now that you have the ability to use your computer to access all of these amazing sites, you can still go to your library. You can go to your library online as well, by the way. You can turn around and get all the information and references to things so that you can be sure that the beliefs that you have as an adult actually come from a place that are true and honest and still what you believe today.

That's what I hope people get from this conversation. And [00:14:10] also, if you're an introvert or you're an extrovert or you're probably most likely an ambivert, that doesn't make you better or worse or deeper or more thoughtful or crazier or whatever. It's just how you process. And it's probably just how you process that day.

I hope that helps. And the other thing I wanna say is thank you so much for everyone who is supporting All About the Joy. And if this show, any of our four shows, because All About the Joy is a network of shows, if any of our shows have touched upon you, taught you anything, made you laugh, made you feel joy, angered you, made you talk about stuff, please, please subscribe and share it with someone else.

We really could continue using more and more support, especially on our YouTube channel. So with that, thank you so much, and remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy. Bye, everyone. [00:15:10] Thanks for stopping by All About the Joy. Be better and stay beautiful, folks. Have a sweet day.