What is the Trump Effect? | CC EP 45

In this episode of Culture and Consequence, Carmen and Andrea dive into the ongoing shift in political rhetoric across America and what many call "The Trump Effect."

They unpack the recent political attacks surrounding Dr. Abdul El-Sayed following the Michigan primary, addressing how 9/11 continues to be weaponized as a political tool. The conversation touches on personal reflections, regional racial dynamics from Boston to Vermont, and the exhaustion of dealing with open, unmasked prejudice in modern politics.

Plus, a lighter wrap-up on classic sci-fi and pop culture—including Andrea's attempt to sit through Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey, a look back at Smallville, and a breakdown of political terminology.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

• Dr. Abdul El-Sayed & Political Rhetoric: Unpacking xenophobia, the post-9/11 narrative, and weaponizing tragedy.
• The "Trump Effect": How public discourse and civility have shifted over the last decade.
• Personal & Regional Perspectives: Systemic racism, living through different eras, and community dynamics.
• Political Literacy: Distinguishing between socialism, democratic socialism, and progressivism.
• Pop Culture Wrap-Up: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Smallville, and classic cinema dynamics.

Link to Carmen Talk about words politicians keep using wrong: 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1777404/episodes/19585161-bakeries-star-trek-and-breaking-down-political-buzzwords.mp3?download=true

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Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER:  As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast.  Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance. 

Transcript

[00:00:16] Carmen: I don't know. I don't know what to say anymore, so, um, are you doing? I know All right. I'm just gonna say that I'm-- and I know this isn't anything that makes any sense whatsoever because this has always been our country, but, uh, I'm sure you're aware that Dr.

[00:00:36] Carmen: Abdul, uh, what's his name? Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, who is the person that won the primary in Michigan for the Senate race. like, how do we as Americans in this country, in the United States, not see the racism? Like, how do we not see it? Uh, he was born in Michigan, Detroit, Michigan. I shouldn't even have to say that, but he was.

[00:01:03] Carmen: and his parents are of an Egyptian background, and there are congressmen, there are just politicians, angry, horrible, racist people who are, like, talking about him as if he had anything to do with 9/11. One-- You know what? I, I don't... So it's so weird, right? For people who don't know, I lost my friend Caesar in 9/11, so I get really pissed off when people use this as a political fucking bullshittery thing.

[00:01:33] Carmen: But if you wanna get into the fine details, not that this matters at all, the Egyptians were not the people that flew the planes into the Trade Center. There was one person who had a background. It doesn't even matter! Like, it doesn't... He is not an extremist. He is just born as a Brown person with a very cool fucking name.

[00:01:56] Carmen: I don't know. I'm upset about this. I don't know what your thought process is on this.

[00:02:01] Andrea: Well, yeah. I mean, the racism is gross and sadly just sort of baked in to... I would say anyone who is considering getting into politics and is-- doesn't look like me, um, just knows that that's the, you know, that they're gonna come up against that. Um, and that sucks. It's just gross.

[00:02:28] Carmen: I think it's just getting worse. Like, I don't see us getting better at not being racist as a country

[00:02:36] Andrea: Well, this is what has, I don't know, been unleashed or okayed or, you know, like, uh, accepted, promoted, you know, whatever you wanna call it. I mean, the last 10 years have been like, "Let's lean into the racism," you know? Let's--

[00:02:57] Carmen: is the Trump effect.

[00:02:58] Andrea: Yeah, it's very, you know, mask off. We don't have to... Well, I mean, and I think this is kind of what you're referring to as the most upsetting part, right?

[00:03:07] Andrea: Like, wow, all, all, you know, these years, not, not that you didn't experience racism before this, but it at least seemed like it was not acceptable, truly. Um, and, and maybe a lot of it was like, "Oh, okay, you're that kind of person. You're a racist, so, you know, we need to sort of put you in a certain box," or, you know, "You need to pipe down and you know you can't say those kinds of things in public."

[00:03:37] Andrea: Um, all that's gone. Like, just be as racist as you wanna be, and you will be rewarded for it, literally, at this point, which is just, it's disgusting.

[00:03:49] Carmen: Yeah, I, you know, as a woman of color who is Latina, I'm really, I'm just tired of the conversation, you know? And it, it breaks my heart because I think we're better than this, and I real- oh my God, no, we're not. But in my experience, it's not that I didn't know or that I thought racism was better. We were always told about racism, and we always understood.

[00:04:15] Carmen: I mean, the, the conversation about police and being, um, especially young Black men, young Black boys, that is something that's very cultural in, like, because we've seen it, right? And I've seen it my entire life, just how different. If you read my book, Canela, and I'm not forcing anybody to buy my book or whatever, but I talk about...

[00:04:39] Andrea: so I can hold

[00:04:40] Carmen: Right? Here it is. I am gonna put... No, no, I'll, I'll put it.

[00:04:42] Andrea: back behind me.

[00:04:44] Carmen: Okay, that's okay. Thanks for making me laugh 'cause I was going down a dark

[00:04:48] Andrea: Like those people who have like five copies of their books on the bookcase behind them when they're on a,

[00:04:53] Andrea: a 

[00:04:54] Carmen: as if it's accidentally there.

[00:04:55] Andrea: like, "Oh, look! Look what happens to be standing up on my bookcase."

[00:04:59] Carmen: No, but in my book I talk about, um, how when I worked for a very... Back then they were called yuppies, young urban professionals, right? So it's all the guys I used to work for, and it's, um, they are the reason why I ended up going to college. I give them all that credit. They really helped me. But one of the things in the book that I talk about is going to a party in this beautiful condo mansion-esque place and seeing like mounds of coke and just drugs everywhere, and cops that would come to our neighborhood and arrest people who were selling or doing who had nothing, and here I was in this environment of just completely wealthy people doing the same thing, and the cops were there.

[00:05:48] Carmen: I mean, I have to tell you, that was me as a teenager being completely like, "What is happening?

[00:05:56] Andrea: Right

[00:05:56] Carmen: was all bad," but then it wasn't, you know? And I'm not-- I'm, I'm saying the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I'm so tired of the racism being so blatant and then you all defending it and pretending you don't see it.

[00:06:14] Carmen: He is a doctor. He has a philosophy. He has an idea. He did not choose how he... This is the other thing. Not that I would motherfucking change my skin color or anything about me, but white folk, you did not choose to be white. I did not choose to be this color. This is how I was born. By the way, I did not choose to be born in the United States.

[00:06:40] Carmen: I just was, and neither were you. Like, I'm so tired of this idea that there was a choice and that your fucking privilege gives you the right, because society has made it that you think you are so better than everyone that you have the right to treat people with such disrespect. I'm so angry about hearing congresspeople linking 9/11 to this man, and they did it with, um, Mamdani.

[00:07:10] Carmen: You know, they did this because you don't like anyone who isn't fucking McConnell or McDonald or McMurphy or fucking Sheila or Karen or David or whatever the fuck. What is wrong with you people? Okay, I'm sorry. That's not on this list. But I'm so mad. And J, I'm

[00:07:29] Andrea: It's just the underlying thing that it's, you know, literally the original sin of this country, i- if not, you know, all of Western civilization. Um, and we just can't get away from it. We just can't get away from it. So I know people are like, "I'm so sick of hearing about racism." Well then stop fucking being racist.

[00:07:49] Andrea: Like, I

[00:07:49] Carmen: Stop being fucking racist, yeah. And, and you know what? Here's the thing. It's like I've always, I've always known that we had a seething racism in this country. You are, you are... If you are not white and blonde and whatever, like you, you know this. You know, you just, you, you know it because you experience it on so many different levels.

[00:08:12] Carmen: And it's different in Boston than it is in Vermont than it is in California, but at the, the core of it, the racism is all the same, right? But it's, it's perceived differently, and I, I think it's important to express to people. When I grew up in Boston, you were like, you knew you couldn't go in, um, South Boston without knowing somebody from South Boston.

[00:08:33] Carmen: South Boston at the time was a very Irish, white neighborhood, so I would never have gone into South Boston because I knew I was not welcome there unless it was with like friends, like Al Carrier or like friends of mine, and never at night. Oh my God, never. You know what I mean? Same thing, Roxbury. If you were Black, and back then Roxbury was predominantly a Black neighborhood, you would not go in there if you were white or Irish or whatever, you know?

[00:08:57] Carmen: Like, and I'm being extreme, but it's, it's actually true. In Vermont, when I went to college in Vermont, everybody was welcoming. Oh my God, it was so beautiful as they rushed their children away from you if you walked in, or like there was a different... The racism was there, but it was different. So in Vermont they would pretend.

[00:09:19] Carmen: What?

[00:09:20] Andrea: I said it manifested differently, like

[00:09:22] Carmen: It manifests differently, right?

[00:09:25] Andrea: still there

[00:09:26] Carmen: it's still there, but it would be like this thing like, "Oh, oh, su- sure you can come here." You know? And it would be like this weird hesitance, and one is not better than the other. It's all fucking racism. And so if you're using 9/11 coming out of your mouth, I don't care who you are, to justify something about a man who has nothing to do with it, you're a fucking racist, period, end stop

[00:09:56] Andrea: I, w-, yeah, I mean, again, yes, I 100% agree. And also, like, I don't know how old he is, but like, what would he have been, like a teenager or something?

[00:10:04] Carmen: I think 15 or something or

[00:10:07] Andrea: "Oh yeah, he had something to do with it." Okay. Like, shut up.

[00:10:11] Carmen: Yeah. Um, I mean, look at, I guess that would make sense if the reverse was true. So I guess all white men are Timothy McVeighs, right? Or all white men are Charles Manson, or like

[00:10:23] Andrea: Right. Or Jeffrey Epstein,

[00:10:25] Carmen: Or Jeff

[00:10:26] Andrea: to

[00:10:26] Carmen: Ooh, don't leave me hanging. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:10:29] Andrea: Yep

[00:10:30] Carmen: Yeah, like Jeffrey, like it- you don't do this. Like, just because you're having a hard time pronouncing his name or you're not comfortable or...

[00:10:37] Carmen: Grow the fuck up. Like, if you actually love this country, start embracing the people that love this country more than you fucking do because they see the big picture. And, and you know what? Here's the other thing. I need all you racist people to go back under the fucking rock you were under.

[00:10:57] Andrea: Seriously. It needs to be shameful again. It needs to be shameful.

[00:11:03] Carmen: It is shameful.

[00:11:05] Andrea: It needs to be like-- Well, it is shameful, but like, like so shameful that you can't express those views in public. Like, I don't know. You know,

[00:11:14] Carmen: If you felt good about who you is, right? And, and you like all these fucking ICE guys and all these racist fucktards that are walking in the streets with their masks up. These are the same people who complained about masks during COVID, by the way. But with their masks and their sunglasses, you, you, you, you wouldn't be hiding behind shit because you know you are doing something wrong.

[00:11:36] Carmen: You know you are doing something wrong. Yeah. Stop fucking using... I, I really need people to take 9/11 out your mouth. I really do. I'm so tired. The next person that I fucking see in my vicinity, like in my space, who says 9/11, I'm gonna fucking hurt you. I'm so tired of people using 9/11 as if it did not affect so many of us on such a level.

[00:12:00] Carmen: How dare you? Like, that's the thing, nothing is sa- like, what is it? Sacrilegious? What's the word? Like, sacred. Nothing is fucking sacred in this country anymore. Nothing.

[00:12:11] Andrea: Nope

[00:12:12] Carmen: Trump is a horrible, horrible human being. I mean, I can't wait. I really cannot wait till things change. 

[00:12:20] Carmen: So I thought we would talk about what the primary is versus the general, because people seem to be confused. And when I say people, I mean people in Congress, like, and the president of the United States. What is wrong with people

[00:12:34] Andrea: Oh, they're just doing it on purpose to try to

[00:12:37] Carmen: Confuse people

[00:12:38] Andrea: people, rally people, get people, you know, enraged. It's all-- Everything is rage bait.

[00:12:46] Carmen: Everything is rage bait. That is so true, you're right.

[00:12:49] Andrea: Yeah

[00:12:51] Carmen: Um, so for people who don't know, we just had another primary in Michigan. That's what... why Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, I really like saying his name. I do, like, I, I still mess up Mamdani's name because I keep saying Mamdami, but,

[00:13:06] Andrea: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:07] Carmen: um... By the way, let me just take a moment to, I usually don't do this, but I did an entire CarmenTalk, it's about 23 minutes long, and I explain the differences between socialism, democratic socialists, social democracies, and communism.

[00:13:23] Carmen: You should check it out because so many people in this country, including Congress people in office, do not know the fucking difference. So go watch that. I will link it here in the show notes. I explain it in a very easy, simple way using shows like Star Trek: Next Generation and a bakery, like, so you can really understand it.

[00:13:47] Carmen: And that's not to dumb it down for everyone else, it was to dumb it down for me, because clearly people do not understand the differences. So they're using the word communism. Communism. How, you know, Dr. El-Sayed is, is this, you know, communi- He... No. No. He's a progressive, but he's definitely not, he's not even a social democrat.

[00:14:09] Andrea: Right.

[00:14:10] Carmen: But I know those are hard words, so please go watch CarmenTalk if you wanna learn what those words actually mean instead of believing Donald Trump, who has to be the least informed person, he has to be the dumbest person who's ever run for president and became president.

[00:14:28] Andrea: far. By far.

[00:14:30] Carmen: All right? I'm not even exaggerating

[00:14:31] Andrea: and look, we've had some dumb motherfuckers, right? Like truly. But he, he, he's a winner because he blows all of them away.

[00:14:45] Carmen: Wow. Okay. Um,

[00:14:47] Andrea: We can give him an award.

[00:14:49] Carmen: wow.

[00:14:50] Andrea: A little

[00:14:51] Carmen: Oh my God

[00:14:52] Andrea: World's dumbest United States president.

[00:14:56] Carmen: You know, he wrote this thing on Truth Social. "My real polling numbers, not those made up by the fake news media, are the best they have ever been, and why wouldn't they be with the biggest tax cuts and employment numbers ever?

[00:15:09] Carmen: The biggest outside investment in America in world history, a total secure border, a giant victory in Venezuela, the denuclearization of Iran, unparalleled respect and success throughout the world, and much more. Don't

[00:15:26] Andrea: Question mark. Question mark.

[00:15:32] Carmen: Question mark, right?

[00:15:33] Andrea: my God

[00:15:33] Carmen: "Don't believe the radical left's fake poll numbers. They are crooked and corrupt just like the country-destroying Democrats are crooked and, and corrupt. Vote Republican for greatness in America. Thank you for your attention to this matter." 

[00:15:50] Carmen: He wrote that, he wrote that August 4th, Everything, every line is a l- every line is a lie. Every line

[00:15:59] Andrea: It's like it was written by an eight-year-old. Like, like, and I'm not even ki- and, and I apologize to eight-year-olds. Like, it's... Oh my God, he's just so insecure. It's just so cringe. It just makes me wanna curl up in a ball and, like, hide. Ah.

[00:16:20] Carmen: Like

[00:16:21] Andrea: secondhand embarrassment is too much

[00:16:24] Carmen: It is embarrassing. And then, and it's, uh, yes, and then there's a part of me like, again, the only reason why he continues to be able to do what he does is because he has the Senate and the House Republicans who keep supporting him. Like, he should've been out of there a long time ago.

[00:16:43] Carmen: We, we should have... We should be arguing right now about what's his name, which I don't know if that'd be any better, that other dumb fuck, the vice president. You know what I mean? Like, we should be

[00:16:51] Andrea: Oh， yeah。

[00:16:52] Carmen: dealing with that already. But it's just, he really is a liar, an incredibly... And here's the thing, I don't think, I don't think he's...

[00:17:06] Carmen: Like people were saying, he's just being fed information he wants to hear. No, I, I think he knows exactly what he's doing

[00:17:13] Andrea: I mean, I'm sure that he is, but I also think he knows the truth, and that's why he responds like this

[00:17:19] Carmen: It's so weird. And then he's doing really important things like, you know, painting those statues in all gold. Did you see that? And he's upset with Janine Panero, whatever the fuck her name is. What's her name? Panero.

[00:17:35] Andrea: but I don't think it's Pinero. Piro? Pyro? I don't know. Pirro?

[00:17:40] Carmen: Whatever. Fuck, Fox News bitch, I don't give a fuck what her name is 'cause she is such a crazy lady.

[00:17:45] Carmen: But he's mad at her because at least she said that the Olympian did not destroy the reflecting pool, so she's on her way out

[00:17:54] Andrea: there's, there, there's a certain point, thank God, where the lies just don't work. And thus far, at least the lower courts, not the Supreme Court, sadly, but the lower courts require a level of accuracy, fact, truth, et cetera. So you can lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie until you get in front of a judge and you have to present evidence.

[00:18:20] Andrea: And when they have none, what are they gonna do?

[00:18:25] Carmen: Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, depressing. And I don't mean d- no disrespect to her. Yeah, I do. I don't like her. I don't care. I, I feel bad. I should

[00:18:34] Andrea: All disrespect to all of these motherfuckers.

[00:18:37] Carmen: just

[00:18:37] Andrea: you're participating in this

[00:18:39] Carmen: I'm angry, right? It's like how you're wasting taxpayer dollars going after an Olympian who was not swim- Like, it's all a lie.

[00:18:49] Carmen: Box cutters? Come on. You know what I mean? Like, all that money. All that... There's an-

[00:18:56] Andrea: mean, it's-- I don't know if it's shocking, but it sure is really just gross and disgusting the amount of taxpayer money that's being wasted just on this kind of stuff. I mean, we've already talked about all of the other, like there's... It's gonna be--

[00:19:14] Carmen: and stuff,

[00:19:15] Andrea: Yeah, it, I mean, I don't even think we're gonna be able to fully take in how much actual dollars and, and what that means for the growth and prosperity and development and wellbeing of this country.

[00:19:32] Andrea: Like, there's so much that has been, that is being stolen from us every single day, not just in dollars, but in what those dollars could mean for all of us.

[00:19:44] Carmen: Yeah. Lookit, whoever ends up being president after this fiasco, the cleanup job alone is... I mean, there's the easy stuff that we'll be able to fix, you know what I mean? And I've said that a million times. I do, like the Reflecting Pool. Even I could get the fucking Reflecting Pool

[00:20:05] Andrea: all the gold shit down.

[00:20:06] Carmen: Getting the gold shit, oh my God, it's just disgusting.

[00:20:09] Carmen: But just, like, that stuff, we c- it'll suck, and I hope private companies will, you know... Fucking I think Ameri- like, actual American citizens of the United States will fucking do it. Like, we'll start-

[00:20:23] Andrea: know. I think I've read this somewhere, like, uh, you know, d- um, during the Depression, you know, they created, I can't remember what it's called now, I'm drawing a blank, but it was like the worker corps to do like infrastructure projects. Um, it was, I think it was like WPA or something like that.

[00:20:40] Andrea: Honestly, you could get people to work doing that, just fixing the shit that he's broken.

[00:20:45] Carmen: Right. Right. I think it's sad, but I think that that's gonna be the easy stuff. I think what's happened to us as a country psychologically is the tougher part. Um, you know what I mean? Like, I think that's gonna be really hard to, to deal with no matter who the president is.

[00:21:02] Andrea: We need like group therapy.

[00:21:03] Carmen: Yeah, it's gonna be an ongoing, you know, um,

[00:21:07] Andrea: PTSD treatments and whatever.

[00:21:11] Carmen: Yeah, I, I just, I, I, I do think it's horrible

[00:21:14] Andrea: Decr- cult deprogram- deprogramming. I

[00:21:17] Carmen: Oh no, I'm done. If you're still a fan of Donald, you're, bye. Move a- you the 30%,

[00:21:24] Andrea: like, uh, very significant psychological needs across the board for all of us.

[00:21:31] Carmen: Yeah. I, I can't help those people. There, there, there was somebody who wrote on Threads or something, they were like, you know, um, "There's going to be a lot of help needed for those members who are still support-" I'm like, what, what?

[00:21:49] Carmen: The... There's going to

[00:21:49] Andrea: Yeah. They're last in line. There's

[00:21:54] Carmen: help needed for all of us who've been fighting this. Like, I'm sorry, I'm done. Yeah, I'm like, there are other people who are in

[00:21:56] Andrea: a whole lot of people who are further up in the line than those mofos

[00:22:01] Carmen: Yeah, and just simple things like the economy. Like he keeps lying about the just the basics of things like people trying to get work, Like just all of this stuff that he keeps spewing that's just complete lies. We have wars happening everywhere, you know what I mean?

[00:22:17] Carmen: That need to be dealt with. Who the hell is gonna handle Iran? I have no idea. That whole situation, God bless you, because that is going to be such a nightmare. And it's not like, it's not

[00:22:29] Andrea: Even our allies can't trust us now.

[00:22:32] Carmen: That's what I'm saying

[00:22:33] Andrea: Even our allies, much less someone who we chose for unknown reasons to begin bombing And keep, keep making deals and going back on them and

[00:22:45] Andrea: making 

[00:22:45] Carmen: I just love that we, we've won this war I don't know how many times already

[00:22:49] Andrea: Oh yeah, their defenses have been annihilated a, a, a year ago actually, Carmen. I don't

[00:22:54] Carmen: I know,

[00:22:54] Andrea: if you know that, but

[00:22:56] Carmen: um, all right, well, somebody asked, uh, how do we know each other? I thought maybe you'd give the quick snippet

[00:23:05] Andrea: Uh, Carmen hired me to work

[00:23:09] Carmen: Did I? Oh, that's right, I did

[00:23:11] Andrea: Yeah. We interviewed, I remember it was in Brentwood at, like, a coffee shop. You interviewed me. Like, you already worked for this person, uh, we'll call it a high net worth person. Um, and I was interviewing to be the assistant, I think. Right? Does that sound right? I g- I don't know what else I would've done.

[00:23:32] Andrea: So you were the already there as the not professional bookkeeper.

[00:23:36] Carmen: Exactly. I was not the professional bookkeeper at all. I was told that, yeah

[00:23:42] Andrea: Carmen interviewed me and, um, we just got along like a house on fire, I think immediately. And then we would be, we worked in this person's house together.

[00:23:53] Carmen: In their home office, right

[00:23:55] Andrea: and, you know, got to know each other and just really liked each other. It was during the Clinton impeachment trial, so we would watch that during our workday.

[00:24:07] Carmen: Monica Lewinsky issue,

[00:24:09] Andrea: So we, you know, like politics and all of the stuff around the politics has just sort of always been a way that we connected, I

[00:24:18] Carmen: Yeah, you are the friend I talk to most about politics. Yeah. Um, that's-- I mean, I'm not saying that's our only thing. Um, for some reason I also back then connect us to Sex and the City. Like, I just remember because your friends, you would all get together and then you invited me a couple times, all of

[00:24:39] Andrea: Yeah, I remember there was like, it was like a season premiere or something and I had a little like get-together for that. Yeah

[00:24:46] Carmen: Yeah, and you would always cook these massive meals and

[00:24:49] Andrea: know. I really did cook a lot back

[00:24:51] Carmen: you cooked a lot back... And you can cook, girl. I'm

[00:24:54] Andrea: I still do, but it's a lot less fun.

[00:24:57] Carmen: Yeah. Right, 'cause you were doing it for your friends before. I'm sure that's

[00:25:02] Andrea: yeah, it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna create something special for my friends." Now it's like, "Oh my God, you fucking wanna eat again today? Jesus, when will it end?"

[00:25:12] Carmen: Yeah. And, and even after, 'cause they, did we both get fired from that job? Let

[00:25:17] Andrea: I quit. You got fired because you were not a professional

[00:25:20] Andrea: bookkeeper 

[00:25:21] Carmen: I was not a professional bookkeeper, even though I'd been doing the books for, I don't know, three years at that point, I think. Uh, yeah, and we're making fun of it because it's...

[00:25:30] Andrea: I quit, I don't remember why exa- other than just that it sucked, but

[00:25:35] Andrea: I'm, 

[00:25:35] Carmen: she had that other woman working for her that was stealing from her? Elaine or something, or

[00:25:42] Andrea: And then there was the guy who was helping, like, with the archiving of some, some, some, I don't even

[00:25:47] Carmen: Yeah, I don't know what ended up happening, but she ended up letting us go or whatever. You

[00:25:52] Andrea: I quit over email and she was pissed, but I was like,

[00:25:56] Carmen: Right. And then she fired me when I was just like, "Okay." But what she did that became comical, like it never hurt my feelings. I don't remember it hurt because I realized it was about her. She was trying to say that she needed to hire a pr- oh, Edith. That was her name. Edith, remember?

[00:26:13] Andrea: the name, but I don't remember her as a person

[00:26:16] Carmen: No, well, because why would you? But she was stealing from her. She ended up stealing from her, like a lot or something, and I was just like, "Whatever." But the woman that fired us, actually a pretty big deal in Hollywood at the time. I mean... And she turned around and she said, "The reason why I'm letting you go, Carmen, is 'cause I have to have a professional bookkeeper, and you're not a professional bookkeeper."

[00:26:37] Carmen: I was like, "Okay,

[00:26:39] Andrea: And then like you went on within a couple of years to essentially sort of lead the whole like finance function at a

[00:26:46] Carmen: Whatever. It doesn't even matter. She, yeah, sh- she was just... Like, it was just such the... Like, and the idea of what a professional bookkeeper was, it's like, so you wanna pay someone more money in a company, 'cause that's what it was, like, to do the same exact

[00:27:01] Andrea: pay them more money. Like, you could've just paid me more money and then I would be pr- pr- professional.

[00:27:05] Carmen: Right. Right. There's no certification to become a professional bookkeeper, even today. So it was really funny. I mean, you know, and I, I think, um, her husband was someone I thought was really cool. He was cool. We won't say who he was, but he was

[00:27:22] Andrea: with him, but he was-- I was always, uh, like, "How the fuck are these two married?"

[00:27:30] Carmen: I never understood. But he was huge. Like, if she was a big deal, he was huge. Huge, and still is. I'm acting like

[00:27:38] Andrea: generally a really good person, at least that was my experience of

[00:27:41] Carmen: He was a really good man, very nice person, and he, um, he was very kind to me and I- he also, uh, reached out to me afterwards privately and, and that was the first time I learned about a, a different kind of religion.

[00:27:55] Carmen: I'm not gonna say it because, um, and not that I have anything to do with that religion, but that's when I started understanding that people had different religions even if they were white and I thought they were Christian, you know? But, um, but yeah. So anyways, yeah, that's how we met. And then the next question was...

[00:28:13] Carmen: These were, uh, comments, uh, emails that were sent to me. I just took out the thing. Um, you don't disagree much. Are you both Democrats? What do you disagree on in life? Life?

[00:28:25] Andrea: Like, does this person not watch the show? Like, we disagree quite a bit.

[00:28:32] Carmen: Andrea is a tree hugger. Like liberal, liberal, liberal.

[00:28:39] Andrea: super to the left

[00:28:41] Carmen: you're super to the... You're more like... Well, you don't like Bernie Sanders, but you're on his bandwagon

[00:28:46] Andrea: Yeah. I mean, I pretty much would support any of his touted policies. Him as a person, not so much. But, um, yeah, I'm, you know, like a sneeze away from radical, let's put it that way.

[00:29:03] Carmen: You're what? Like one

[00:29:04] Andrea: away from radical.

[00:29:05] Carmen: Right. Uh, I'm not. I've always prided myself, although now it makes me throw up a bit, but I've always prided myself as being a conservative Democrat. Like, I'm more to the middle. I think most people are in the middle. I lean left. But now, with this bullshittery going on, I will jump on that bandwagon, the liberal bandwagon.

[00:29:26] Carmen: I will... I, I... There's no way I can justify what's happening in the middle and right, uh, to this country, uh, so... But yeah, that's why we're different. Like, I just, we, we, we're on the same side fundamentally, but we've had, um, we just have some different issues as to how it should work. And I say, although I think you've changed a bit.

[00:29:51] Carmen: You've changed a little bit. I've changed, but you've changed too. I have a lot more faith in the American people. You've always been like, "Fuck America," or like... I, g- g- you know what I mean. Let's not lie. I've changed

[00:30:06] Andrea: I just am more cynical, I think.

[00:30:09] Carmen: Yeah, you're more cynical. I'm much more optimistic probably, or in fairy land. Like I live in, you know, la la land wishing that the world was this perfect utopia that it is not, and I have learnt my lesson. So I admit that, yeah

[00:30:25] Andrea: But there, I mean, yeah, if you watch the show, there's all kinds of things that we disagree about, whether it's pop culture, you know, or

[00:30:34] Carmen: Do we disagree on pub... On what?

[00:30:38] Andrea: Well, I said the death penalty, although we have decided that we're closer than we thought we were

[00:30:42] Carmen: Yeah. Yeah, we are a little bit closer on death penalty than we were,

[00:30:46] Andrea: Well, and I'm, you know, at, honestly, I'm like heads on spikes. Um, that's where I, I want fucking medieval

[00:30:53] Carmen: So now she's for the death

[00:30:54] Andrea: people. So, so there we are,

[00:30:57] Carmen: Yeah. So now, so now we're closer on that. I've always been for the death penalty. I'm against the justice system and how we go about it. Um, and there shouldn't be that many people on, on death row at all if we were doing it right. And so now you understand what I'm kinda saying.

[00:31:15] Carmen: Uh, but yeah, I'm totally for heads on sticks too, or whatever you just said. Is that what you said?

[00:31:22] Andrea: I said heads on spikes.

[00:31:23] Carmen: Heads on

[00:31:24] Andrea: them fucking lined up on Pennsylvania Avenue.

[00:31:26] Carmen: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so yeah. Uh, we're k- closer. I think, I, I think the thing that makes it interesting is that we both can talk to each other about stuff. It's not that we have... Like, I'm not some staunch conservative at all.

[00:31:41] Carmen: Uh, and you know, but like for example, I always liked Senator McCain, like, and Andrea does not. You know? Like, we would, we would have those conversations. But boy, wouldn't you rather be dealing with President McCain right now?

[00:31:56] Andrea: Hell yeah.

[00:31:58] Carmen: You know? Um, eh, so it's kind of those things. I think it's more... But wait, what do you mean culturally we have differences?

[00:32:04] Andrea: just mean like movies and stuff like that, you know? Like we just have different tastes in some of those kinds of things. Like, you know, my absolute refusal to watch "E.T." and "Field of Dreams."

[00:32:13] Carmen: Yeah, but that's bec- okay, but that's mostly because now it's just a thing. It's just a thing

[00:32:19] Andrea: oh, okay. So, sorry. I did, I tried to do something for you yesterday. Um, I sat down to watch "2001: Space Odyssey." It's on HBO Max.

[00:32:36] Carmen: Okay

[00:32:36] Andrea: And, um, so I was like, "Okay, I, I happen to have a few hours here." It, it was the daytime, which I think was maybe the wrong time to try to watch it. But, um, so I, I put it on and I started watching it, and I was like, "Okay." Okay.

[00:32:56] Carmen: How far did you get? I'm curious.

[00:32:58] Andrea: get this motherfucker going. Um

[00:33:01] Carmen: So just wait, just so people know, this is my third favorite movie of all time. It's by Stanley Kubrick. It's 2001: A Space Odyssey

[00:33:08] Andrea: So a couple, couple of things. Like, obviously this is from whatever, like 1960...

[00:33:14] Carmen: or something,

[00:33:15] Andrea: And so people were watching it in the theater. They were not sitting on their couch at home with the dog and their phone and, you know, needing to get a snack and all of that. Like they, it was, you had people's full attention.

[00:33:28] Andrea: Also, my attention span, much like everyone else's, is absolute shit these days. So there's that, right? I freely admit, um, would've probably been a better idea to see this in the theater. Um, but it was 45 minutes before a person spoke in this movie.

[00:33:49] Carmen: Yes

[00:33:50] Andrea: And then I think I lasted maybe like another 20 minutes and I, I fell

[00:33:55] Carmen: Oh. Okay, that's fair

[00:33:58] Andrea: So I was like, okay, like let, let me examine my issues

[00:34:05] Carmen: No, no, it's okay. It's, it's a hard movie to

[00:34:08] Andrea: It is, well, and I, I feel like I, I do maybe wanna finish it. Maybe. I don't know. As I get older, I feel like I'm less inclined to finish things I'm not into. But, but I, like you, I, I think it's hard to watch it from here, right? Like I can see how, you know, avant-garde and groundbreaking and all of it that it was way back then, but y- like the music is so iconic,

[00:34:38] Carmen: It is

[00:34:39] Andrea: it's so much a part of pop culture now.

[00:34:42] Andrea: It's used in memes and jokes and satire and all that, so it doesn't have the same impact

[00:34:48] Carmen: Yeah,

[00:34:48] Andrea: that it would have, you know. So there's that kind of thing and just, yeah, I mean, truly it was just like, can something fucking happen here, please, for the love of God?

[00:34:59] Carmen: But I think-- Okay, no, go... Oh,

[00:35:01] Andrea: So that's where I was. I'm just

[00:35:02] Carmen: Yeah. Well, first of all, don't do it for me. Okay. Well, thank you. Let me just say

[00:35:06] Andrea: I d-- I was like, "I'm gonna watch this movie and I'm gonna go there tomorrow morning and I'm gonna tell Carmen that I watched this movie." And I'm like, it's like 55 minutes and I'm like, "I'm not gonna fucking finish this movie."

[00:35:20] Carmen: So let me first say that I first watched it because I studied Stanley Kubrick in college, so we watched every Stanley Kubrick film, and I fell in love with it because of the music, you know? And also it's an... It's like abstract art. Nobody understands it, but you sit and you try to absorb it. It's not so much a linear movie, and if you had gotten to the end, which I think you eventually will.

[00:35:46] Carmen: You will at some point. You'll, you'll notice it's on TV or something, and you'll try to watch it or whatever. I don't know. But, um, Hal, I'll just say Hal. I don't wanna ruin it for people, but when you think of AI today, you're gonna see Hal and what we fear, and it's... And, and the reason why it's so remarkable is 'cause it was made way before any of this was happening.

[00:36:09] Carmen: You know what I mean? And so if you think about it that way, it's an art piece. Um, and it's like abstract art, and I should have probably mentioned... I didn't actually think you'd see it, so, but thank you

[00:36:22] Andrea: Well, I mean, I kind of do that, and so I do ta- I, like I said, I, I take some s- responsibility for, like, trying to fit it in in the middle of the day, right? Like, I don't think I was in the right headspace to sit down and be like, "I am ready to, you know, absorb some art right now." Um, it was more like, "I wanna get this done to show Carmen that I can be, I can change."

[00:36:45] Carmen: Have you seen "Project Hail Mary" yet?

[00:36:47] Andrea: I haven't seen that yet. We're-- Well, so my daughter is, one of my daughters is watching "Smallville," so we're kind of, I'm kinda doing that with her right now.

[00:36:57] Carmen: So if you see Project Hail Mary, there are, um, a lot of moments like 2001: A Space Odyssey. There's much more conversation and stuff, of course. Um, I think the hardest part for 2001 is people not realizing that it is-- I've always called it, like, abstract art. Like, you sit for that first, I don't know, 25 minutes of just seeing the apes and not understanding what is going on.

[00:37:25] Carmen: You know what I mean? But th- that's kind of, um, that's the whole point, I think, is letting yourself immerse yourself in something that doesn't make much sense, and then understanding the pearls in it. So I hope you do. Thank you for doing that. I kinda love that. Yeah. Okay. You know what's a really linear story that would really be kind of fun and easy for you to watch?

[00:37:47] Carmen: It would be

[00:37:48] Andrea: I think it's time to go. I think we're, we're

[00:37:50] Andrea: done here. 

[00:37:52] Carmen: Or, Field of Dreams. Those are two movies, really lots of dialogue from beginning to end. There's no explanation

[00:38:00] Andrea: happening left, right, and center, right?

[00:38:02] Carmen: Man, I can't believe it, you tried 2001: A Space Odyssey. I'm so excited. Wait, were you able to watch Reacher at all?

[00:38:10] Andrea: No, I haven't watched that yet 'cause we're, like I said, we're, we're committed to "Smallville" at this point, and that

[00:38:16] Carmen: What is Smallville?

[00:38:17] Andrea: cute. He-- it's like,

[00:38:18] Carmen: Smallville?

[00:38:18] Andrea: it's

[00:38:19] Carmen: not that Dean Cain guy, is it?

[00:38:21] Andrea: no, no, no, no, no. It, this is,

[00:38:22] Carmen: Jesus

[00:38:24] Andrea: it's from the early 2000s and it's like, it is like

[00:38:29] Carmen: know what it is

[00:38:29] Andrea: Kent. It's Clark Kent when he was like in high school.

[00:38:32] Carmen: Right, right

[00:38:33] Andrea: And I guess it will move, I don't, I think it's, there's several seasons, so we'll, we'll move on to what happens after. So it's kind of, you know, I, I picture it probably being like sort of, uh, marketed to teens back in the day. Um, but it's cute. I like it. The dude is really, really cute, so that doesn't hurt.

[00:38:53] Carmen: Who is it? I forget who it is.

[00:38:55] Andrea: I'm just, I just enjoy looking at him. It's

[00:38:57] Andrea: fine. 

[00:38:58] Carmen: cool

[00:38:59] Andrea: probably like my age now, so even though he's like young in that and that's a little bit weird, I make it okay because he's probably actually my age, so

[00:39:09] Carmen: Smallville actor, let me see who he is Uh, Tom Welling. Is that his name? Tom Welling?

[00:39:19] Andrea: no idea. I don't know

[00:39:21] Carmen: Yeah, that's him from Small- he does not look like he did when he was a kid. I mean, not that's, that's horrible of me to say. You

[00:39:30] Andrea: Aw.

[00:39:31] Carmen: know, like, so don't, don't Google.

[00:39:35] Andrea: Just enjoy where he's at then.

[00:39:37] Carmen: where he's at right now,

[00:39:39] Andrea: Okay. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna live in that moment

[00:39:42] Carmen: Live in that moment 'cause you're gonna be... No, no, he's a good-looking man, but you know, he's not, you know. Yeah. I'm just saying. So, oh my God, I'm so horrible. All right. Well, I think we've, we talked about everything. I don't think we talked about the primary and the general, but people need to just Google what those differences are.

[00:40:00] Carmen: The primary and the general are two different things. You need, everyone needs to vote in the general. You need to vote in November, so please register. Please take the time to care about our country enough if you say that you do, and vote, and vote only blue. I don't care. This is... There's no, there's nobody on the other side who is going to fix this, because if they were, we, it, we wouldn't be having these terrible conversations.

[00:40:28] Carmen: Yeah. The Republican Party would be fixing what's broken right now, and they're not

[00:40:33] Andrea: completely obligate, uh, obligated, abdicated their responsibility to the American people. I mean,

[00:40:41] Carmen: don't know why.

[00:40:42] Andrea: Like, they are not interested in anything that helps anyone except for themselves and their pocketbooks.

[00:40:49] Carmen: It doesn't make any sense to me though. Like, what are they just-- They're, they're getting rich and screwing over the American people at the same time?

[00:40:56] Andrea: Yeah

[00:40:56] Carmen: Why would you want to do that? We're going to get back at

[00:41:00] Andrea: It's like they can't see any further than like the hand in front of their face. I don't, I just don't, I don't get

[00:41:05] Carmen: I know, but you see what I'm saying, right? Like, even if I thought, "You know what? I'm gonna scam. I'm gonna make millions of dollars," or whatever, I would know that the tides are going to turn. This isn't something you're going to win at.

[00:41:19] Andrea: I don't know. I don't know. Well,

[00:41:21] Carmen: the next president better go, go after these people. You're saying they probably will get away with it

[00:41:25] Andrea: I don't know. I n- I don't know. I mean, you know, certainly there's a cynical part of me that thinks like, you know, are we gonna get everybody? Obviously not. You know, are many of these people gonna get away with their complete and total corruption? Probably some of them. But, um, I think you could-- If, if I was advising presidential candidates, I would say go hard on justice, because I think if, you know, the first person who comes out and says, "I will prosecute everyone top to bottom to the letter of the law,"

[00:42:00] Carmen: They're gonna win

[00:42:01] Andrea: people will line up behind you.

[00:42:03] Andrea: People will, you know, volunteer for you. People will give you mo- Like, this is what we want. Nobody wants to see this with, with no accountability, which is how we got here. There was no accountability for the last administration, and that's why they've been able to absolutely run rampant with the corruption this time.

[00:42:26] Carmen: Yeah. And people can blame Merrick Garland for that too, you know? I mean, that is part of that issue is he didn't prosecute because he was still under this idea that people would do the right thing. And I don't know why he didn't do what he didn't do, but it's like, uh, yeah, him and Joe Biden, like God love them, but that's not the world we live in.

[00:42:47] Carmen: Like now we need somebody who's going to fight

[00:42:51] Andrea: Hard.

[00:42:51] Carmen: a rabid dog. Like, and I'm all here for it.

[00:42:55] Andrea: I'm serious. Yep. Absolutely. Heads on spikes.

[00:42:59] Carmen: Yeah. All right. Well, thank you everyone for hanging out. Um, I hope that was interesting. Like,

[00:43:08] Andrea: It was something

[00:43:10] Carmen: um, remember at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy, and we'll see you next time. Bye everyone.

[00:43:16] Carmen: Bye.